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    Old 11-24-2010, 01:30 PM
    Urumqi Urumqi is offline
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    Default Gimped Warriors!

    Ouch, i knew they were nerfing dps, but the threat reductions on Dev and SS are killers, and Vigilance has been well and truly gimped as well.. and our new found healz are also hit with the nerfbat. I feel sad inside....

    Warriors

    [Warriors

    Cleave damage has been reduced by approximately 17%.
    Execute damage has been reduced by approximately 17%.
    Heroic Strike damage has been reduced by approximately 17%.
    Overpower now does 125% weapon damage, down from 150%.
    Rend base damage has been reduced by approximately 17% and percent of weapon damage per tick lowered to 25%, from 30%.
    Shield Block now only increases block chance by 25%, but excess block that pushes avoidance plus block to over 100% is now converted to critical block chance.
    Slam now costs 15 rage, down from 20, and now does 125% weapon damage, down from 150%.
    Victory Rush damage has been reduced by approximately 17%.
    Whirlwind now does 65% weapon damage, down from 75%.
    Talent Specializations
    Arms
    Mortal Strike now does 150% weapon damage, down from 185%.
    Second Wind now heals for 2/5% of total health, down from 5/10%.
    Strikes of Opportunity now does 100% weapon damage, down from 115%.
    Fury
    Blood Craze now heals for 1/2/3% of total health, down from 2.5/5/7.5%.
    Bloodthirst damage has been reduced by approximately 17%.
    Raging Blow now does 110% weapon damage, down from 150%.
    Unshackled Fury now gains approximately 50% more benefit per point of Mastery.
    Protection
    Critical Block now grants an equal amount of block chance and critical block chance (1.5% each per point of Mastery).
    Devastate no longer provides bonus threat.
    Shield Slam: Contribution of attack power reduced to 60%, down from 75%, and base damage brought up so that a level 85 warrior in Heroic dungeon gear deals the same damage with no Vengeance, but Vengeance has less impact. In addition, Shield Slam no longer generates 30% bonus threat from its damage.
    Vigilance no longer provides 3% damage reduction, but still refreshes Taunt and provides Vengeance.
    Glyphs
    Glyph of Bloody Healing increases the healing received from Bloodthirst by 40%, down from 100%.
    Glyph of Intimidating Shout no longer causes targets to flee slowly, but roots them instead.
    Glyph of Shield Wall increases damage reduction to 60%, but increases the cooldown from 2 minutes to 4 minutes (talented).
    Bug Fixes
    Taste for Blood should once again proc on every other tick of Rend.
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    Old 11-24-2010, 03:17 PM
    greenbeermonkey greenbeermonkey is offline
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    funnily enough this will scale better when you hit 85....

    the majority of classes have had similar reductions/changes.

    locks are the primary one i can think of thanks to 17% being stuck in my head.

    it'll be fine as we accumulate mastery (well apart from ret pallys?! ) and gain gear past what we can currently.

    Don't look at it as a nerf.

    If someone is due to complain its me. I cannot change from big beef to flying bat!
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    Last edited by greenbeermonkey; 11-24-2010 at 03:21 PM.
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    Old 11-24-2010, 03:38 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    yeah to be fair I would wait to see how it plays out at 85 as that is what everything is balanced for now, several classes got buffs in 4.0.1 to make them stronger for raiding at 80 so most of this is just setting the number back in line with the beta.
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    Old 11-24-2010, 06:56 PM
    Cataclysmic Cataclysmic is offline
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    Warriors were doing pretty oscene damage though to be fair, though the nerfs to prot are a little strange
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    Old 11-25-2010, 06:38 AM
    Urumqi Urumqi is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cataclysmic View Post
    Warriors were doing pretty oscene damage though to be fair, though the nerfs to prot are a little strange
    Thats my point, I have no issues with the dps Nerf, as it was needed. what is a pain is the threat nerf.

    Mastery effects block, no real impact on threat.

    Its not too bad once up and running but it makes for a very twitch start as its harder to build immidiate threat.

    Expertise and Hit will be even more critical as a parried or blocked HS or Shields slam on the pull can easily cause a dps aggro esp if they open with a few crits!
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    Old 11-25-2010, 07:47 AM
    greenbeermonkey greenbeermonkey is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Urumqi View Post
    Thats my point, I have no issues with the dps Nerf, as it was needed. what is a pain is the threat nerf.

    Mastery effects block, no real impact on threat.

    Its not too bad once up and running but it makes for a very twitch start as its harder to build immidiate threat.

    Expertise and Hit will be even more critical as a parried or blocked HS or Shields slam on the pull can easily cause a dps aggro esp if they open with a few crits!
    This is where both dps and tanks will have to actively monitor their threat.

    DPS will have to use their threat dumps (fade, cower, feign etc) more aggressively.

    We've moved towards the TBC packs of trash in the expansion so this will become ever more critical. Omen will be, (as always) a must have addon.

    I'm looking forward to it, Blizz obviously think that because we've become so used to facerolling instances (honestly wrath's instances were simpler) that we need a jolt to come out of our apathy.

    Its also early days and there will be tuning - as there always is.
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    Old 11-25-2010, 09:08 AM
    Urumqi Urumqi is offline
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    I dont like the way This transition phase between expansions has been handled.

    It seems to me Everyone was buffed to high hell with 4.0 so we could smash raids, and then horribly gimped with 4.0.3a.

    They should ahve just nerfed the bsoses like they did in TBC rather than keep screwing around with everyones class mechanics. I thought thats what Beta's were for.

    The long and teh short of it is on the evidence of Halion Heroic last night, i wont have issued with threat, as long as i get sufficent expertise, which will mean sacrificing some of my avoidance (most likly by swapping mastery for expertise), but Darieth tells me Priests are now Uber and wont let me die so I'll go with that!

    Seems strange that the mechanics of a class are now going to force you to reforge out of their new stat for the expansion!
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    Last edited by Urumqi; 11-25-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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    Old 11-25-2010, 09:28 AM
    greenbeermonkey greenbeermonkey is offline
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    i'll agree with you on that point re the buffed element. i am generally happy with how everything has played out though. i suppose the good news is that dec 7 isnt that far away.

    i've also found that the quest resets have completely chuffed me up.

    i was grinding for cen circ rep last night and whilst waiting for Ben to come down i was doing the zone quests to get loremaster (i've lost around 1k quests - ouch!) but no matter how many times i killed deathclasp i couldnt for the life of me get his pincer and no matter how many twilight geolords i killed it wouldnt register on my quest log.

    Either i've been shafted from race change (no batform as yet either!!!!) or i'm missing something else.

    i'm not the only one judging from the forums so i'll keep you posted on progress.
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    Old 11-25-2010, 09:39 AM
    Cataclysmic Cataclysmic is offline
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    I've noticed that tank threat is ok, once you give it a chance. At the start of a fight it's VERY VERY twitchy - I have to wait a good while before I can pop wings, as if I pop it on the pull it is almost always going to pull aggro, thanks to 30k hammer of wrath crits coming in almost instantly.

    It's interesting what you say about having abit of a ramp up before you are doing max threat - Paladins have the same thing when tanking now. We need 3 holy power before we can unload our first Shield of Righteousness (The pally shield slam) and that forms the bulk of our threat, meaning that for the first 9-10 seconds our threat is pretty poor, unless you get good Avenger's Shield crit rng. I pugged ICC 10 last night and found I was using Hand of Salvation on myself pretty much on cooldown, and at one point on Saurfang I had to just flat out stop dpsing, though that may have been down to the tanking not being great.

    Tank threat so far on the beta seems ok - I've never had issues pulling aggro in an 85 heroic, even with warrior tanks. I think what doesnt help at the moment is that everyone is doing more damage thanks to the new talents, but also everyone's combat ratings are WAAAAY higher than they will be at 85.
    To put things in perspective: At 80, in average 251 ish raid gear (only 2 or 3 pieces above 251) I have about 35-40% crit chance in raids. I also have 25% unbuffed haste.

    On the beta, in FULL Tier 11, full raid epics, properly gemmed, enchanted and reforged, I have 7% crit unbuffed, about about 10% haste (That's 10% haste having reforged almost every piece of gear into haste, and enchanted for it where possible). Fully raid buffed I go up to about 14% crit at the very most. That's with the best possible gear before starting heroic Cataclysm raids.

    So the real problem is combat ratings, which are being slashed in Cata - once they have been, threat won't be even nearly as spiky as it is now.
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    Old 11-25-2010, 10:08 AM
    Urumqi Urumqi is offline
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    Yea a reduction in crit for dps classes will help greatly, at the moment at the start of the fight a double crit is going to make it very twitchy bum time, esp if my opening shield slam is parried (hence the need for more expertise!)

    Basically the mechanics of warrior tanking are the same, ie use Shield slam (esp sword and board Procs) and Revenge whenever possible, but now with the added nuances of making sure you keep an eye out for HS crits as they now give you a guaranteed 2nd crit if talented, which is awesome for threat, and also trying to time it so you always have shield slam available right after shield block to benefit from the double damage.

    I have a question for healers though - I can Glyph my shield wall to give it its 60% mitigation but 4 min cool down (like the old days). would you rather i have it liek that or the 40% reduction on 2 min cooldown? 60% is a much better Oh Sh!t button, but 40% easier to chain and therefore overall prob mitigates more damage over the course of a fight.
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