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    Old 04-02-2013, 06:16 PM
    Ctrlphr34k Ctrlphr34k is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stopngo View Post
    why bother about all that when I can just shoot the oracles? it only takes 2 seconds
    Because it gives him the time he needs to move his stalkers over, reposition and be ready to pull his probes if needed; the whole point of mutalisks vs protoss is hitting him where he doesn't expect, before he's ready. Otherwise, he'll just stick his army by his probes and you'll end up losing massive numbers of mutalisks. It's doing things like this that force your avg APM up higher, rather than just spam clicking like a loon - I don't actually click that fast, and apparently I'm hitting 120-150 apm these days (I don't believe it, I reckon blizz changed the calculations when HOTS hit :P)
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    Old 04-03-2013, 07:54 AM
    Stopngo Stopngo is offline
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    Well, you're a toss.

    All the higher level zergs I've asked have said. No, you did the right thing, Oracles first, then probes. Obviously missing out attacking stargate momentarily ofc.


    But I'm not wrong in saying Airtoss is OP. I watched a game on youtube between Nestea, who's not such a bad Zerg and some other Protoss sicko with an MMR high enough to play him. The Protoss sicko fast expands into VR's, Nestea sees this and plonks an immediate third. Before any player really starts pumping out units, the tosser takes a third, and Nestea goes up to 5 bases.

    Nestea attempts to combat VR pheonix with Muta Corruptor and it was like watching an Oracle shred a drone line, I don't think Nestea was able to kill a single unit. So Nestea flew around with his muta's taking out probe lines, the tosser would rebuild his probes, and as he was short on money, add a single VR when he could...and build an unassailable army piecemeal

    You could clearly see that Nestea was the superior player, he was the one dictating the play, all Toss would do is move his slow army around, to chase off the muta's with pheonix or move his VR ball into position. and when he could, add another VR.

    Now, I saw this and thought I would try it. But I'm a lot smarter than Nestea so, cleverly I decide to go Hydra's instead of Muta Corruptor. At about 14 mins I have a speed OV patrolling in a triangle over potential 3rd's. I see one being built and I attack it with my army taking it out without losses. I know he's got VR's I've seen it all..

    I get my Hydra's upgraded, (not the best) 2-2 with range upgrade and at 17 mins with a 200/200 hydra ball (got a few roaches in the front there)..... I go and attack him (I was slightly concerned that I was two minutes too late but having said that, I was flush with cash and gash and had lava to spare. So, if worse came to worse, and I lost the battle, I could remax in a moment or two and finish off the last of the VR's and win.

    But there wasn't a battle. It was simply embarrassing. I've taken on mass VR's in WoL with hydra's before but this was something different. No one mourned in Auir, not one family lost a pilot.

    In WoL zerg had Broodwar infestor. And altho the game was balanced (even) at the end it would seem like Protoss could win early and Zerg would win late.

    Toss moaned about only having a Deathball avenue to winning, So Blizzard gave them ways to harass and defend more than adequately against harass. Not only that Tossers were whining about the air capabilities not being quite as powerful as they would like.So Blizz fixed that too! They used to have to use a bit of micro to charge up the Rays, now they turn it on with a button. BLizzard seem to have plugged all the holes in Protoss gameplay and not given adequate compensation to Zerg.

    You may respond to this ala Zealos with an arbitrary 'what would you know?' comment, you're only bronze, 'I could build only workers and beat you every time'. But I'm merely mirroring what is being said in the upper circles and experiencing it myself at my level. It's all well and good claiming that I should be focussed on doing what I'm doing right, and offering incorrect advice. But I like talking about games and this is what I'm seeing in my games and listening to the pro's. I'm getting a 'you better shut the fuck up noob' vibe in this forum, but if I'm not talking who else is? How else you sposed to get your little PCG forumites clan thing going if there isn't even a forum?

    I'm a chess player, at one time I reached a pretty good standard, my official ELO was 1876 at it's highest point, my ambition at the time was to top 1900. For a comparison, I spose that would be mid-high diamond. If I were to play against somebody of mine own strength I would expect to win 2/4 games. If I were to play against a player who was able to win 3/4 games against me, he would have a rating of about +200 , 2100 aprox, which is about the beginning of FM standard. IM's come in at around 2400, GM's start at about 2500, SGM's at around 2700. So, a Super GM of 2700 would expect to beat a lesser GM of 2500 around 75% of the time. Kasparov and people like Vishy have topped 2800. Top spec brute force algorithms can do around 3100....

    Anyway, i digress. What I'm trying to say badly is when I go up against Airtoss, I feel like I'm starting a game with a couple of pawns missing. Don't get me wrong I beat Airtoss all the time, but I have to rush them to do it.

    But that's still not right, Terran Zerg and Toss should all have avenues to win early mid and lategame starcraft. If you can't kill a toss in the early/mid game, There's no option available to beat them late..and again it's bullshit saying that I'm low level..I paid for the game, my group is large. Sure I could improve but I'm playing against Tossers who also aren't Min Chul'ing it.

    ...3 Tempests will 1 shot a BroodLord..
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    Old 04-03-2013, 10:11 PM
    Swiss Swiss is offline
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    Zergs always been about slamming your head against a brick wall of various incarnations of protoss deathballs, until through the blood you see a tiny 1mm crack for all your efforts.

    So I assume anyway, haven't even bothered to ladder since I got HotS, I'm not exactly the wannabe advice guru I was two year ago.

    Edit: Stick up a replay anyway, probably not be able to help but just out of curiousity anyway

    Last edited by Swiss; 04-03-2013 at 11:28 PM.
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    Old 04-05-2013, 04:58 PM
    Gamer Gamer is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stopngo View Post
    How is balance an invalid point at low level? Seeing as you're famous amongst PCgamer forumites as being someone who thinks anyone below your esteemed mastery level doesn't even deserve to own the game. HoTS costs the same price for low level players of which they form the largest group... or are you paying more for your pro version?.. and besides you've even done this yourself Zealos...There's replays on here, of you massing lings off 5 bases and cryin like a girl when the coloss/deathball comes an wipes 'em all out for ya.
    Balance doesn't exist at a low level. And just because an esteemed masters player whines about balance after he gets annoyed at a loss doesn't make it right. I appreciate that you've made up a legacy for me though, and I hope one day you can join me in my glorious heights
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    Old 04-07-2013, 08:07 AM
    GreatExarch GreatExarch is offline
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    I'm kinda surprised you're not getting absolutely crucified for this post. I guess I frequented Team Liquid too much.

    As much as you seem to hate hearing this, in bronze, you're not going to need fancy stuff to win. You just need to be generally better. You're gonna have to practice, it's gonna take work, and it's not always gonna be pleasant.

    Specific tactical advice is wasted here. It's not your problem. Even at silver, it's not your problem. Hell, it's not all the way to diamond.

    Builds, macro, and practice are all you're gonna need to go up. Just don't give up.
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    Old 04-12-2013, 09:31 AM
    Gamer Gamer is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GreatExarch View Post
    I'm kinda surprised you're not getting absolutely crucified for this post. I guess I frequented Team Liquid too much.

    As much as you seem to hate hearing this, in bronze, you're not going to need fancy stuff to win. You just need to be generally better. You're gonna have to practice, it's gonna take work, and it's not always gonna be pleasant.

    Specific tactical advice is wasted here. It's not your problem. Even at silver, it's not your problem. Hell, it's not all the way to diamond.

    Builds, macro, and practice are all you're gonna need to go up. Just don't give up.
    Careful, you're being far too elitist if you tell him that it's actually his fault that he lost.
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    Old 04-13-2013, 12:03 AM
    Congo Congo is offline
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    No it's vindication, David Kim admits the Void Ray is too strong against zerg apparently according to some sources.

    Last edited by Congo; 04-13-2013 at 12:06 AM.
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    Old 04-14-2013, 12:11 AM
    Ctrlphr34k Ctrlphr34k is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Congo View Post
    No it's vindication, David Kim admits the Void Ray is too strong against zerg apparently according to some sources.
    To be fair, a fleet of VRs is majorly OP; and even a few will toast a roach army nicely (one of my fave WTF builds in WoL was going 3 base VR Colossus; wall in with gateways, rush mothership, laugh as opponent builds *NOTHING* but roaches and gets handily toasted ) - buuuuut VRs take a ton of gas and a lot of time to build... really, if the protoss is free to build up a massive fleet of voidrays you've already lost the game, either he's got you contained and is outplaying you, or you've not scouted his total lack of anything resembling a deathball and then sat and let him continue to pump out starport units like an idiot (hint: muta his gas supply; no gas = zealot only army, most likely without charge if he's going mass air = yummy zerg food)
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