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    Old 02-20-2012, 05:23 PM
    Megazell Megazell is offline
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    Default STEAM DRM Questions?

    Hey all,

    Most know my stance on games and purchases. That's not the focus of this thread. From the PCG article on the main page titled [URL="http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/02/20/gabe-newell-grows-spectacular-beard-also-says-something-about-drm/"]"Gabe Newell grows spectacular beard. Also says something about DRM"[/URL] I have a lot of questions and since I've not been in the habit of getting box copies of games in a very long time I thought I would ask some questions from those that do:

    1) When you go to purchase a PC game be it via website (digital distribution) and/or traditional retail stores does it not state that it will be using STEAM and/or STEAMWORKS?

    I do remember a long time ago when HL2 first came out that there were some boxes (I could be remembering this wrong - correct me if so) that did not have info on STEAM. This was also the early days of STEAM where a great many did not know about it.

    So I'm asking the question above to understand the current state of retail. Because a lot of people posting the article and a on some other forums talk as if they had NO IDEA they had to use STEAM with their games til the very last minute (installation or opening the box).

    Now I have seen people with boxes to games that stated it used STEAM but perhaps not all do? Not sure.

    2) If so - If the boxes/websites clearly state that they use STEAM - How are people 'feeling forced' to use it when they had the option to NOT buy it in the first place? Is it that some people are confused and believe that STEAM is optional (I can understand that a little since many games like 'Revenge Of The Titans' give you the option of playing it with or without STEAM both on Humble Bundle and the retail box <- Saw this online)? Or they just not making informed purchases.
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    Old 02-20-2012, 06:12 PM
    Jealy Jealy is offline
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    Both my CoD:Black Ops and my CoD:MW2 say "Product offered to your acceptance of the Steam Subscriber Agreement ("SSA")" on the back.

    Heck, even my BF3 says it requires Origin on the back of the box.
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    Old 02-20-2012, 06:13 PM
    Swiss Swiss is offline
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    I was under the impression it was always stated on the box. I don't buy much physical copies any more, but all of mine that require steam have a big warning on the front.

    At the very least I'd say it'd be listed on the minimum reqs on the back of the box.
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    Old 02-20-2012, 06:18 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    Steam is always in the requirements if a game uses it.
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    Old 02-20-2012, 06:23 PM
    Granny Granny is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Megazell View Post
    1) When you go to purchase a PC game be it via website (digital distribution) and/or traditional retail stores does it not state that it will be using STEAM and/or STEAMWORKS?
    In my experience, yes retail boxes do state that Steam is required (oh, the number of potential impulse purchases that have been lost over the years... ). However, if I recall correctly, this was not always the case (or at least it wasn't as easy to spot as it is now).

    As far as DD goes, I'm not too experienced in that area, although I do recall that GamersGate and D2D used to state something like "Requires a 3rd party download and account". Don't know about D2D, but I just checked GamersGate, and it now says 'Steamworks (Requires a 3rd party download and account)' under DRM.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Megazell View Post
    2) If so - If the boxes/websites clearly state that they use STEAM - How are people 'feeling forced' to use it when they had the option to NOT buy it in the first place?
    For some the games are more important than the DRM they are coupled with. So they buy games that use Steamworks, and complain about being forced to use Steam.

    There are also those that genuinely don't know about this stuff, or else use Steam all the time without giving any thought to the DRM, and then are surprised when they find out/get stung.
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    Old 02-20-2012, 06:37 PM
    Freddie Freddie is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Granny View Post
    For some the games are more important than the DRM they are coupled with. So they buy games that use Steamworks, and complain about being forced to use Steam.
    This is the case with me.
    I'm really not a fan of Steamworks, but despite the fact I don't like it, it's not going to stop me from playing great games such as Skyrim and New Vegas and missing out on them.

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    Old 02-20-2012, 08:18 PM
    jon_hill987 jon_hill987 is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Megazell View Post
    1) When you go to purchase a PC game be it via website (digital distribution) and/or traditional retail stores does it not state that it will be using STEAM and/or STEAMWORKS?
    The have the Steam logo on the box and explains it needs an account next to it.
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    Old 02-20-2012, 08:40 PM
    Megazell Megazell is offline
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    So it seems like VALVE is informing the public about it's DRM and therefore it's not intrusive. Correct?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Granny View Post
    For some the games are more important than the DRM they are coupled with. So they buy games that use Steamworks, and complain about being forced to use Steam.

    There are also those that genuinely don't know about this stuff, or else use Steam all the time without giving any thought to the DRM, and then are surprised when they find out/get stung.
    But here is the thing, you're not forced to use it if you have already accepted to using it.

    It's one thing to complain about intrusive DRM which is hidden. A consumer that complains about this is 100% in the right and in IMO should request and GET a refund. Mind you I know that companies put DRM info in their terms of agreements at times but that to me is 'sneaky' tactics when something of this nature should be clear on the box or website.

    It's another thing if the DRM is causing rig running issues. There again the consumers is 100% in the right to ask and GET a refund.

    I don't see a way to give anyone leeway about the DRM issues with STEAM (or any other company that advertises how their DRM works on the product you're about to purchase) when they KNOWINGLY agreed to getting the game anyway.

    It's like getting married to a woman that everyone and her own parents warns you about saying 'She is a Gold Digger!' and then leaving divorce court with a dumb founded look on your face 1 year later when she has taken all of your money.

    As for those that genuinely get into these predicament it's an issue of educated purchasing habits that sometimes people have to learn the hard way. Wish it was not so but...

    Last edited by Megazell; 02-20-2012 at 08:43 PM.
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    Old 02-20-2012, 08:44 PM
    Lizard Lizard is offline
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    My Half-Life 2 box makes absolutely no mention of steam on it whatsoever, it just mentions that an internet connection is required.
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    Old 02-20-2012, 08:58 PM
    Megazell Megazell is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lizard View Post
    My Half-Life 2 box makes absolutely no mention of steam on it whatsoever, it just mentions that an internet connection is required.
    Funny story. When HL2 came out I had cousin in the service. It was on part of his care package request. Begrudgingly picked up his copy. It too did not say STEAM/DRM was included but internet connection was required. Shipped it off. He got it. Could not play it for a long time. Wrote me an email about it and I contacted Valve about it. No response to finally they stated he needs to make an account on STEAM 2 months later. I was 100% pissed about this since it's been sometime since I got the game. Mind you my relationship with retail video game was already strained this made it MUCH worst. Anyway in 2006, he came back to the states for a few. Finally activated his HL2 and was able to play. The ticket was still open for the issue because I wrote about how it was not displayed on the box and had we known that we needed internet just to install we would not have bought the game. We had thought internet connect requirement meant only for the MP.

    In 2007 to 2008, Valve finally fully responded to my cousin's ticket. Gave him a letter of apology and gave him some free Valve games, which he accepted and still supports them and their products.

    So yeah I hear you on that HL2 launch box it was bad but I got to ask did you request a refund or put in a ticket about it?
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