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    Old 05-16-2011, 01:23 PM
    Manuel Calavera Manuel Calavera is offline
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    Bioware have been in for a kicking recently. The dumbing down of their games, DA not being as great and, well, the fuss of TOR doesn't seem to as positive as I'd hoped. What happened to them? Did they get too big? Or should we blame EA?
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    Old 05-16-2011, 01:50 PM
    Shriven Shriven is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Manuel Calavera View Post
    The dumbing down of their game
    Fixed.

    Only DA2 got a slap on the wrist for being kinda pants.

    Oh one thing to point out. Ive read on some site that the DA2 team has not placed there hands on TOR at any point. It was made by console 'vets'. (crap game)

    Look at TOR this way.

    Knights of the Old Republic Online.

    8 Different Single player modes each twice the size of KotoR with optional PvP and (we belive) raid content at the end.

    I totally agree about lack of end game being worrying. But if they keep churning out new single player content consistantly, it will be less of a problem.
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    Old 05-16-2011, 02:43 PM
    Cataclysmic Cataclysmic is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Red_Avatar View Post
    WoW's combat falls down because you rarely have to use tactics to succeed. The entire game is built around levelling
    Wrong on both counts. If you think you rarely have to use tactics then it is clear you've never engaged in any of the endgame content, be it arena pvp / high end battlegrounds or raid combat.

    If you think you don't need to use tactics to defeat WoW's raid combat then you are grossly mistaken. The same is true for arena pvp and even battlegrounds.

    The game is NOT built around levelling. ALL of the game balancing, from class balance to instance and encounter design is built with max level in mind. Blizzard have said this again and again. They DO NOT try to balance the game in any way pre level cap, because frankly they cannot - there are simply too many classes, specs and scenarios for that to be viable.

    If you want to compare WoW to TOR then fine, but at least know what you are talking about first, and use some kind of vaguely decent analogy or example too.
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    Old 05-16-2011, 03:00 PM
    Shriven Shriven is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Red_Avatar View Post
    WoW's combat falls down because you rarely have to use tactics to succeed.
    What a strange comment indeed.

    You never did 4 Horseman at level 60 did ya?

    Back to TOR. they are at E3 in a few weeks. Expect massive info, i think on endgame and the obligatory promo(maybe launch) trailer by blur.
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    Old 05-16-2011, 04:35 PM
    srjones srjones is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Manuel Calavera View Post
    Bioware have been in for a kicking recently. The dumbing down of their games, DA not being as great and, well, the fuss of TOR doesn't seem to as positive as I'd hoped. What happened to them? Did they get too big? Or should we blame EA?
    Well, the 'change' happened at the exact time they got bought. hmmm.....
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    Old 05-16-2011, 04:40 PM
    srjones srjones is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cataclysmic View Post
    Wrong on both counts. If you think you rarely have to use tactics then it is clear you've never engaged in any of the endgame content, be it arena pvp / high end battlegrounds or raid combat.
    Actually the term 'rarely' is entirely correct. What percentage of wow subs play even one raid? Or BG? Or even join a group? For the vast majority of players the vast majority of time is spent 'leveling' which is only a challenge if you intentionally try to do content above your level and even then you can face that challenge with pretty simple tactics that would not pass for tactics in a single player RPG.
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    Old 05-16-2011, 04:50 PM
    Cataclysmic Cataclysmic is offline
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    Originally Posted by srjones View Post
    Actually the term 'rarely' is entirely correct. What percentage of wow subs play even one raid?
    According to wowprogress, which tracks achievement information from the WoW armoury, a Blizzard run site which tracks all characters above level 10 and tells you pretty much everything about the character, quite a high percentage.

    The current tier of raiding has both normal modes, and heroic modes and is VERY VERY difficult in comparison to Wrath of the Lich King content.

    Despite this, 94.74% of guilds have killed magmaw - one of the first two bosses in the Blackwing Descent raid dungeon. Infact, 48% of guilds logged on wowprogress (it logs almost all guilds, as any guild which is found on the armoury is added automatically) have completely cleared the Bastion of Twilight instance. Fewer (only 29%) have killed the last boss of Blackwing Descent though.

    So actually, quite a high percentage of people have done at least some raiding. If you are trying to suggest that the "vast majority"£ of players has never even joined a group in wow, and is "still levelling" then you are VERY VERY VERY much mistaken.
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    Old 05-16-2011, 06:32 PM
    Freddie Freddie is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by srjones View Post
    Actually the term 'rarely' is entirely correct. What percentage of wow subs play even one raid?
    I'd also like to add that tactics are required not just in raids, but in five man dungeons too, which nearly all of (if not every) WoW player has done at some point.
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    Old 05-16-2011, 07:08 PM
    Red_Avatar Red_Avatar is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cataclysmic View Post
    Wrong on both counts. If you think you rarely have to use tactics then it is clear you've never engaged in any of the endgame content, be it arena pvp / high end battlegrounds or raid combat.

    If you think you don't need to use tactics to defeat WoW's raid combat then you are grossly mistaken. The same is true for arena pvp and even battlegrounds.

    The game is NOT built around levelling. ALL of the game balancing, from class balance to instance and encounter design is built with max level in mind. Blizzard have said this again and again. They DO NOT try to balance the game in any way pre level cap, because frankly they cannot - there are simply too many classes, specs and scenarios for that to be viable.

    If you want to compare WoW to TOR then fine, but at least know what you are talking about first, and use some kind of vaguely decent analogy or example too.
    Screw the end-game. Most players will mostly play the "regular" game which means grinding, grinding, grinding, etc. I forgot which website did a study, but only about 5% of all WoW players even got to the end-game and the end-game, as the name says IS THE END OF THE GAME. As in, all that comes before is supposed to be the GAME and it's basically a collection of fetch quests with tons of grinding so I stick by what I said. As Srjones said, it's why I said "rarely" - you don't NEED tactics to do 95% of the game ergo you are wrong.
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    Old 05-16-2011, 07:10 PM
    Red_Avatar Red_Avatar is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    I'd also like to add that tactics are required not just in raids, but in five man dungeons too, which nearly all of (if not every) WoW player has done at some point.
    I did those dungeons and instances, and if you call a bunch of guys doing their own thing without much coordination "tactics" ... well suuuuure. Even with a band of total morons we still managed to complete instances - not once did I ever see true tactics beyond the very very VERY primitive tank/heal/support "tactics" which is like saying ducking in a FPS games is tactics as well .

    Sure you got harder parts, but like I said, those are less than 5% of the game - heck, probably only 1%.
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