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    Old 07-29-2010, 11:05 AM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    The only time you should be using rupture is if you have mangle in the raid. If the guild has a new feral druid that i'm not aware of then glyphing and speccing a rupture build will give you a dps edge. Maybe your dps increase was in a pug that had a feral druid in the raid? But when I say increase I'm talking about a tiny tiny increase, not even close to 30%

    Also Morg, most rogues will cheap shot you and then build up for a kidney shot, my advice would be to hold your freedom of movement trinket untill that second stun.
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    Old 07-29-2010, 11:09 AM
    leviethan leviethan is offline
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    I dont pug raids, and i never said 30% dps increase, Its a 30% damage increase to rupture, if i didn't say that, i ment to, and its either mangle or trauma, and Sid is now specced into trauma so...
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    Old 07-29-2010, 11:24 AM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    The way I understand it (as the maths behind it is complicated as all hell) is that mangle is what gives the edge because of its 100% uptime. Trauma can be kept up 100% aswell but it has a wider margain for error. Because the increase of a rupture build to a ruptureless build is so minute then if the debuff is dropped for even a few seconds your dps will drop below that of the ruptureless build, so you want to only use it for mangle.

    Edit: It also should be noted that this is sort of a moot point because even with all this, the dps increase is only viable for straight up tank and spank fights with little to no add-switching. So what you should be doing instead of speccing rupture, is get yourself a mutilate build and gear. Then swap depending on the fights.

    Last edited by Zael; 07-29-2010 at 11:30 AM.
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    Old 07-29-2010, 02:59 PM
    leviethan leviethan is offline
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    hmm yes i do agree it isnt strongest on fights like Proffy P untill you get to the last phase where it is more or less Tank n Spank with some movement, Sindrogosa also comes to mind with the iceblocks, I might go back to a ruptureless rotation, I will admit i found it easier with timing, and more fun. As for a mutilation spec I think i'll give it a miss, when i played it, I found it just lucking something, like CDs (I always enjoy using CDs), And Besides its 'Good Raiding material' or something to have A/few Combat rogues, Apparently, So I'll stick to combat for now, come Cata This might change.
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    Old 07-29-2010, 05:04 PM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    Yeah thats true, currently guilds are better to have more combat rogues than Muti. But since we have nothing much to do untill Cata you should try and gather some mutilate gear. I'm currently gearing for combat.
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    Old 07-29-2010, 07:27 PM
    leviethan leviethan is offline
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    Well I have been doing a lot more pvp recently, so thats where my badges are going, however if a decent piece in ICC, and its going to DE i'll off spec roll on it and build a muti set and save it from being blown up, saying that I have spare sanct gloves, and a spare normal sack of wonder, which I will be using for PvP, but I'll have the right gems in it anyway for PvE.
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    Old 08-01-2010, 09:27 AM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    Any chance of having this stickied btw?

    Thanks

    Last edited by Zael; 08-01-2010 at 04:12 PM.
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    Old 08-02-2010, 10:31 AM
    Ykyik Ykyik is offline
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    Out of interest what do our rogues think they need to do to subtlety to make it PvE viable in Cataclysm?

    It looks like they are getting closer with each patch but I think they need to tweak the points slightly so that you can go throught the whole tree without having to spend any points in PvP talents.

    Thoughts?
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    Old 08-02-2010, 11:10 AM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    At the moment Sub in Cata doesn't have a rotation to stand by itself for PvE. It's hugely finisher dependant unlike the other two trees and they need to change that 60% from eviscerate refreshing rupture to 100%. Serrated blades with a hugely bleed heavy tree at the moment just doesn't work for PvE. Gambling on a 60% chance of your rotation working just doesn't work since it's practically impossible to theorycraft. At the moment it looks like Blizz are content at just making subtlety PvP viable.
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    Old 08-21-2010, 10:34 AM
    Ykyik Ykyik is offline
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    Well with any luck they won't change the current (new) build too much now that Serrated Blades can keep Rupture refreshed 100%

    Also if Subtlety is supposed to work on big finishers surely that changes the gearing of a 'subtlety' rogue. I wish I had access to the beta but as I don't I can only guess that gemming and enchanting for more crit then haste would perhaps make sense?

    If the idea behind subtlety is to work blizzard need to somehow make a melee dps class which does more ability damage then white damage (Although from current parses of dps recounts I think that is just me getting my ideas messed up). With any luck I will be able to raid in Subtlety come Cataclysm although de priests be lookin intrestin mon...
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