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    Old 07-04-2010, 12:32 AM
    leviethan leviethan is offline
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    You get about the same attack power (roughly) but you'd loose the damage on deadly throw (i seem to use this a lot) but you get a small bit of crit, although i dont think crit is that vital since un buffed (i only have one agility gem) i have enough crit to be cirtting more then not, so its roughly equal, but then you get the extra stam, which increases survivability, its all debatable really.



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    Old 07-04-2010, 02:08 AM
    leviethan leviethan is offline
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    OK done some actual PvE research tonight on a few forums, and if you could edit your large post near the front accordingly Zaev, this regards combat rogues for those who wants to see.
    OK, linked the talent/glyphs here [url]http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0eb0tLZMgVo0cxqru0xRt:hNfc[/url] I'm actually currently experimenting slightly with swapping one point here and there, i'll re-post my final decision soon.

    So basicly the rough dps is higher with a rupture rotation(i havn't tested this but its what im hearing off a few peoples) , and spec above, plus glyphs, its not a massive difference, and its slightly hard to get the feel for according to what iv read, and you only use 4cp SnD and rupture on every 5cp you can manage, this is basicly what i picked up. Also read about CD useage or each of the current fights etc, but I'm the only combat rogue we have, so im not going to bother, since im probbly the only one who cares. But yes, please change your post accordingly incase we get some new blood in who spec into combat. Ta



    Lev

    Last edited by leviethan; 07-04-2010 at 02:11 AM.
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    Old 07-04-2010, 02:12 AM
    leviethan leviethan is offline
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    Just 5mins after posting done some more reading, got a small chunk wrong, will post in the morning/few days once I remember.



    Lev
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    Old 07-04-2010, 01:21 PM
    leviethan leviethan is offline
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    Ok im awake now, time to get it right, basicly its a small bit with the rotation, you use a 2cp SnD and then 5 point rupture for a little while, then a 3cp SnD plus 5point rupture, continue for a small while, 4cp SnD then 5cp rupture and then use this for a small while, fit in an evisc somewhere to drop yourself back down to a 2cp SnD 5cp Rupture and repeat, CDs used in relavince to the fight etc so didnt include them. That is all (i think).




    Lev
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    Old 07-07-2010, 09:32 AM
    greenbeermonkey greenbeermonkey is offline
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    Is subtelty of any use? i've got my rogue up to 40ish and transferred over to SWC, havent really played him in a long whilst but liked the stealthy steathly! if its no viability whatsover (PVP?) then i'll probably go mutilate again as main, combat off.
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    Old 07-07-2010, 10:01 AM
    Nelks Nelks is offline
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    i always found combat an awesome spec. swords was a winner every time in PvE. great for lvling also

    subtly is more pvp i would of thought. mind u i havent played my rogue since BWL raiding
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    Old 07-07-2010, 10:18 AM
    Surprse Surprse is offline
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    two things

    Zaev can you just tell me why you put icewalker ahead of say attack power on boots if you have fleet footed?

    And also if your speccing for pvp arena you dont need the preperation glyph imo as it resets between battles
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    Old 07-07-2010, 02:19 PM
    leviethan leviethan is offline
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    Yeh and a Sub spec is a pvp spec if anything, and its all about position really since most the time you gota be behind em to deal your main damage (ambush, back stab etc) but it does have some nice CDs, like shadowstep (instant teleport behind someone, quite funny sometimes) and shadowdance(You can use any of your abilities you normally need stealth for, without stealth, so ambush, cheap shot pickpocket etc), but its not the spec for me really, to complex. Also on a side note, i don't use preparation that much anyway, might respec and not take it, i'll see. Side note Mk.2 Well um speed increase so you can move and stay alive and Darieth will normally shout at us for not having it. (I see the point but really in truth dont think its that great, only 6% speed increase or something, plus 120hp, and you just cloak or vanish from damage most the time, oh well).


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    Old 07-27-2010, 10:35 PM
    Ykyik Ykyik is offline
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    Ok after a slightly more detailed look at my talents I can see why Subtlety is more of a PvP spec but does anyone here know of any sites that could tell me how much of a difference there is between the other two more popular specs + if i raided in subtlety do you think Ii would be frowned on. Any thoughts?
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    Old 07-27-2010, 11:45 PM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Surprse View Post
    two things

    Zaev can you just tell me why you put icewalker ahead of say attack power on boots if you have fleet footed?

    And also if your speccing for pvp arena you dont need the preperation glyph imo as it resets between battles
    Only just saw this, the preperation is for long arena fights. So you can pop it quicker and keep stuns up longer. If your battles end in like a minute then yeah its useless but for longer ones it could win the fight for you. Icewalker comes up with a greater EP on the spreadsheet than attack power but if you want to get mathematical then.

    On the spreadsheet there is a list called "EP Values".
    That means "Equivelance Point" values.
    That means that if you get an x EP increase with stat Y, you will see the exact same dps increase when you get x EP increase of stat Z. The point of gearing and gemming is to get a maximum of EP, while juggling to stay under hit and expertise caps.

    1 attackpower is 1 EP. By definition.
    1 agility will be around 2 points.
    1 arp will be around 2 EP, and growing to 2.5 EP when you have a lot of arp.
    1 expertise is usually between 2 and 2.4 EP.
    1 crit is usually around 1.85 EP
    1 hit is usually around 2 EP when you are over the poison cap (315).
    1 hit is usually a lot higher when you are under the poison cap, 2.5-2.8 EP.
    Details are different for different sets of gear.
    Check your spreadsheet.

    Now if you compare the two enchants.

    Icewalker. +12 hit and +12 crit.
    That is 12 * 2 + 12 * 1.85 = 24 + 22.2 = 46.2 EP.
    32 atp = 32 EP.

    So Icewalker comes out with a greater EP and thats why we put it in the boots.

    @Ykyik

    You cannot do PvE with subtlety anymore, there is probably a build but ir would only be for fun and will severely nerf your dps so yes you will get ridiculed and you won't be able to pull your weight in any raid you go on, unless its for fun. As for the two different specs, elitist jerks is your best bet. Get yourself a spreadsheet for either spec and then take a look at the rotation and builds.

    But just in short, Muti uses daggers and prioritises Haste and attack power. On straight up spank and tank fights it will out dps a similarly geared combat guy by about 200 dps. Combat uses any weapon really and focuses on Armour Pen. Combat is much better for fights that have adds or require just a lot of target switching in general.

    Its difficult to sum up a whole spec so if you have any questions about it just post it here and i'll probably give you a dumbed down version than the answers they have on the EJ forums.
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