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    Old 01-05-2011, 09:19 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    by the sound of it cata as long as your close to it the other stats out weigh the risk of the odd miss, admitedly it could cause problems if something like tranq shot misses but as far as I remember it doesn't have a cool down so you can just fir another.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 10:22 PM
    Del Del is offline
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    If black arrow misses you're slightly boned on dps for 24 seconds but it's not game-changing, more slightly annoying
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    Old 01-05-2011, 10:42 PM
    Chewwie Chewwie is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cataclysmic View Post
    Are hunters the same then?
    No. It's similar in that there's not many abilities that rely on the hit itself. I can see the merits of discussing it, but I'm a little shocked at how this part of the discussion has arisen. Although the dps contribution per point of hit has been reduced (agi now outweighs it, always), but you should cap because it is ridiculously easy to do on a hunter - if it wasn't so easy (as at certain points in Wrath), my response here would be completely different, but it is easy. It's the only cap we really NEED to consider as our attacks can't be dodged and it's really easy to reach. Did I mention it's really easy to reach? Our big hitting attacks rely on DIRECT damage (as in, single hit's) and missing one shot can result in upto 50k damage lost in some situations, not to mention the focus lost. Regardless of the dps each point of hit sims out at, missing a shot has a significant cost, especially if you miss a black arrow or worse, a tranq shot. Your pet may also miss (through being under hit and expertise cap). That cost is far higher than dropping some mastery or even a little haste through a visit to the reforging dude. Make sure you're at or just over the cap, it's a no brainer.
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    Last edited by Chewwie; 01-05-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 11:01 PM
    greenbeermonkey greenbeermonkey is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cataclysmic View Post
    I am not sure about hunters, but there's a good reason why ferals don't GO MENTAL AND PANIC if they arent hit capped.

    It is because they have nothing which really depends on attacks hitting. Ret Paladins have seals, Enh Shammies have Maelstrom Weapon stacks, Rogues have poisons etc, all of these require you to be hit capped as a missed hit means a lost poison / seal proc. Feral druids don't have anything like that, and if their finishing moves miss 40% of their energy cost gets refunded anyway.

    Are hunters the same then?
    Its 80% energy cost, feral misses off white paws makes approx 6% of our dmg overall. you also have to count the fact that 99% of the time we are behind the target scratching butts. so i can see where i may have misspoken.

    Hunters dont have the luxury thinking about it properly if not hit capped. the focus isnt refunded the same way. i would edit my post to put a line through my rather dumbass comment but fail to see how! i think that you shouldn't necessarily have to reforge to hit generally as Chewwie states, mail is generally loaded with hit so reaching the cap shouldn't prove difficult. i think that is where the confusion has come from in regards to priority in reforging.
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    Last edited by greenbeermonkey; 01-05-2011 at 11:03 PM.
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    Old 01-06-2011, 02:25 PM
    Belara Belara is offline
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    [url]http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/01/06/scattered-shots-survival-and-haste-for-hunters/[/url]

    Nice article by Frostheim here about what haste means to a survival hunter. Basically what Cata linked earlier, but the upshot is that 6.25% haste, which allows you to fit in three cobras without delaying explosive (not including lag) is something you should be getting almost by default. If you're reforging all your haste to crit, you might be under that "cap", but that probably wouldn't happen unless all your gear is hit/haste (if it's haste/mastery, you'd be reforging the mastery).

    When playing as MM, though, I tend to ignore stat weightings that put haste last. Mathematically, I'm wrong and probably losing dps, but speeding up those steady shots makes a big difference to how MM feels to play, as well as allowing you to avoid delaying chimera. But there's little point in playing MM at the moment, cos Survival is so ridiculous.
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    Old 01-07-2011, 01:05 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    looks like 4.0.6 could change the hunter meta choice, they are adding a new agi;/3% crit damage meta and changing it back so they old one and these new ones just need 3 red gems to activate and that is a easy task since the main stat we need is Agi.
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    Old 01-08-2011, 03:10 AM
    Del Del is offline
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    Yeah 4.0.6 = Spam agi gems, use agi/crit only if socket bonus is EXCEPTIONAL.

    As for dark intent a copy paste from my other guild's forums:

    Quote:
    So I've had a few different people and classes asking for the new DI (much better than the old DI) and as a very very rough guide to explain choice of DI targets this helps: [url]http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/813759-Dark-Intent-The-Guide-%282010-12-24%29[/url]. The reason its only a rough guide is a) it assumes BiS gear which noone has and b) some classes can gear differently if they assume they have the 3% Haste and thus gain even more DPS from DI.

    However, if any person can provide some actual evidence of their own DPS gain from DI by showing a SimCraft/Rawr/whatever of your gear both with and without DI and it looks better for the raid to give it to them, I will. I don't know how tight the DPS checks will be on heroic modes but this would be worth figuring out anyway. Feel free to link these in this thread.

    At the moment using common sense the priority list is Shadow Priests > Hunters > Mages based mostly on that guide and how much damage classes are doing atm. This changes between some fights imo since Mages can do incredible Combustion damage on some fights (like Halfus) and thus move to 1st place. It could be though that with scaling other classes will move into the priority list.
    Combine this with the Scattered Shots posts assume that your haste cap is 3.4% and try to make friends with a warlock :P
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    Last edited by Del; 01-08-2011 at 03:32 AM.
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    Old 01-09-2011, 05:48 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    are there any good sources on the gear I should aim for pre raid? at the moment I'm just using guess work, but I am seeing Chewwies point on hit the heroic mail has loads of it and the hit cap seems like it will be really easy.
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    Old 01-09-2011, 11:11 PM
    Belara Belara is offline
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    This is what I'm working off, Belimawr: [url]http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/09/scattered-shots-pre-raid-gear-for-cataclysm-hunters/#continued[/url]

    Doesn't include conquest gear, which, depending on how many heroics you've done, may or may not be achievable prior to setting foot in BRM, BoT or 4 Winds.
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    Old 01-09-2011, 11:19 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    looking at that list I'm actually doing quite well on it, really need to look into the leather working stuff tried to look early but it seems atlas doesn't have the leather working stuff in yet, so I need to look on wowhead or something for mats.

    I must say gearing up a hunter seems so much easier.
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