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    Old 11-15-2010, 12:28 PM
    Darieth Darieth is offline
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    Default The death of Disco?

    I've been playing with level 85 talents today, and I think I have the perfect Holy Priest Raiding Build as 9/32/0. This means that we'll be getting Evangelism and Archangel in Cata.

    I like the options that Evangelism/Archangel brings to the class, and coupled with Chakra funtimes I can't imagine why anyone would want to play any other healer. It seems to me, given that Archangel doesn't buff PW:S, that this whole mechanic is actually much more at home with Holy than with Disco.

    I simply cannot wait, as a devoted Holyer, to get stuck into Cata raids. The options presented by Evangelism, Archangel and Chakra will really separate the men from the boys, as maximising healing potential is going to be a tricky business. With all this fun to be had for Holy Priests, I can't help but worry that Disco might, once again, start to fall behind as a healing tree, to the point where it isn't really viable for raiding.

    I think this for 2 reasons; first, Archangel doesn't buff PW:S, and so that whole new interesting mechanic doesn't really sit well with Disco's main function, providing shiny bubbles. Secondly, with Holy being so involving and interesting to play and Disco relying more and more on simply shield spamming, there may be fewer and fewer players willing to stick with it. Oh, and Power Word: Barrier is currently rubbish, but that will be changed.

    This would be a great shame, because I think that bringing in Disco as a viable raiding build in WotLK has made for some more interesting healing options for us. However, the potency of Shields has also forced Blizz to design some mechanics, like Infest, that become almost unmanageable once you take away the Disco Priest. Just as with the "Magical Tanking" niche for Death Knights, we've seen that once you make a class VERY different from others in the same role, it creates real problems trying to design encounters that don't then demand the presence of your niche class.

    Personally, I'd rather see Disco turned back into a PvP tree, and have a new Chakra State in the holy arsenal that buffs your shields; you can then hop into Mitigation Mode for certain fights. This isn't going to happen, but I still can't see how disco is going to stay interesting and viable, without having to design yet more boss mechanics around the fact that a 10-man raid may or may not be covered in 20k+ bubbles, depending on whether there's a disco priest around.

    The fact that Blizz haven't allowed Archangel to provide a buff to PW:S shows that they don't really have a clear vision for the tree, or maybe the appetite for making it as OP as it has been recently.

    EDIT: Having played around, it is entirely possible to build a shield-spammy/ single-target heavy build for Disco at 85 that doesn't have any of the Evangelism/Archangel talents, thereby keeping Disco playstyle as it currently is. Whether this will be viable for raiding depends on 2 things; the potency of shield vs healing, and mana regen without Archangel.

    Last edited by Darieth; 11-15-2010 at 01:08 PM.
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    Old 11-15-2010, 12:56 PM
    Urumqi Urumqi is offline
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    sounds... priesty. As long as i dont die i'm happy!
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    Old 11-15-2010, 01:31 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    I was expecting to come here and see a picture of darieth in flares lol.
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    Old 11-15-2010, 01:36 PM
    Spectrus Spectrus is offline
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    I wrote a long post, then managed to delete it. Another example of disc priest fail.

    The brief version:

    Cata favours AoE healing at the moment and disc is currently poor at this.

    Disc has a niche in damage mitigation that no other class can do as well. Although Paladins are starting to encroach on this territory with 'Mastery:Illuminated Healing'. Oh noes!

    However, disc damage prevention seems to be getting buffed. The new Prayer of Healing that automatically procs Divine Aegis could be an indication of where things are heading.

    So the broader issue is whether shields are as useful as heals?

    I would argue that increasing health pools is a potentially game breaking ability, which makes it hard to keep disc priests balanced. Seemingly small buffs can make disc priests end up being completely overpowered.

    The only solution is to get rid of disc as a healing class and give us pew pew holy laser dps instead.
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    Old 11-15-2010, 01:36 PM
    greenbeermonkey greenbeermonkey is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Belimawr View Post
    I was expecting to come here and see a picture of darieth in flares lol.
    At the very least - You Don't Mess with the Darieth...

    *scours the web for a pic of Zohan and replaces Sandler's head with Darieth's - Fails* WIP

    Disco disco!
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    Old 11-15-2010, 01:52 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    "The only solution is to get rid of disc as a healing class and give us pew pew holy laser dps instead."

    fear the holy Disco mirror ball of death
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    Old 11-15-2010, 03:54 PM
    Cataclysmic Cataclysmic is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spectrus View Post
    Cata favours AoE healing at the moment
    Does it? I heard AoE healing was being heavily nerfed, and that WOTLK is too AoE smart heal focused.

    The healing style is changing - more people are on lower health for longer, meaning that spot healing is more potent. All of the AoE heals seem extremely expensive - in videos I've seen of Cata raids the healing has been mainly spot healing, with AoE heals used only during periods of heavy, bursty raid damage
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    Old 11-15-2010, 04:47 PM
    Zigzig Zigzig is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Belimawr View Post
    I was expecting to come here and see a picture of darieth in flares lol.
    Hehehe - what a scary thought - do you think he's humming 'Staying Alive' as he heals ?
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    Old 11-15-2010, 06:10 PM
    Spectrus Spectrus is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cataclysmic View Post
    Does it? I heard AoE healing was being heavily nerfed, and that WOTLK is too AoE smart heal focused.

    The healing style is changing - more people are on lower health for longer, meaning that spot healing is more potent. All of the AoE heals seem extremely expensive - in videos I've seen of Cata raids the healing has been mainly spot healing, with AoE heals used only during periods of heavy, bursty raid damage
    As far as I know, the 'pros' have figured out that stacking AoE heals is the most effective system at the moment. In particular, dropping 'healing circles' on top of each other. This is getting nerfed, but it will probably remain a useful strategy to get people to 'stand in the healz' and supplement this with smart heals.

    I think AoE heals have proliferated massively. Even Paladins get them now.

    In terms of spot healing, as far as I am aware, nobody is using the cheap long cast heals that blizzard wanted them to. Quick spot heals like Flash Heal still seem dominant, as it is risky to wait for cheap 2 second casts.

    It would be interesting to know if others have different experiences.
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    Old 11-16-2010, 12:58 AM
    Ykyik Ykyik is offline
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    Ok here be my two cents mon.

    As one of the few priests left in the guild (that I know of) who still has both healing trees, then here is how I see it. In short in 10 mans nothing can as of WOTLK beat a discipline priest in ICC (with a comparitve level of gear). While in 25 mans the hots boost the heals of holy past the mitigation of discipline to make that particualr tree the king of the 25 amn recounts .

    YES Power Word Barrier is going to need a lot of work not to suck hard and the current idea of a falt damage reduction for a set period is a step in the right direction, but only time will truely tell. Yes it can seem at times that mass shielidng is boring, but this is only true in fight with constant raid damage. Fights with reactionary elements are very cool and with Penance thrown in you can fulfil a decent duel role as tank and raid healer (like most healers nowadys ofc). Short of changing shields into flat 'here is a shield that has 10-15% of your health' then yes shield may seem to be odd at times when measured against the new expansion and as Spectrus said its new health pools.

    I am determined to remain as a 2 healer spec for cataclysm (Yes levelling will be fun thank you....) and as such I disagree with Darieth's morbidity and can only hope that they either buff heal so it can actually fkin heal something or flip the amounts with heal and flash heal around like they should have done since the start.

    Peace out Mon!
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