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    Old 10-18-2010, 10:02 AM
    Zigzig Zigzig is offline
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    Default Hunter 4.0 ?

    So it's all a little quiet in hunter land.... I think I'll start the ball !

    This isn't a QQ omg my DPS got nerfed thread. I'm just interested in what others think.

    From my point-of-view something seems strangely wrong when my best DPS is coming from not using my top of tree talent. I get more dmg per focus from spamming ArS than I do from CS. I manually refresh SrpS. And Ive even dropped 2 tier pieces as the set bonus isn't worth it anymore...

    My spec & stats:

    MM talent spec = [url]http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cMZfMGouRMuroc:szVV0aMzc[/url]

    Glyphs: ArS, StdS, KS

    19.98% haste
    52.03% unbuffed crit
    35% mastery

    Fire away

    Zig
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    Old 10-18-2010, 03:28 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    you need more hate it's your best friend now since we need to spam steady shot and also since it add's extra ticks to your stings.

    but the I've found survival just sucks totally and utterly, then for MM the only way to do effective DPS is to start the fight with your mark and sting, then hit CS, burn with arcane shot, spam steady shot, if you fill up on focus spam some more arcane shot till CS comes off cool down (making sure to keep enough focus) and only fire aimed shot when the free instant cast is available.

    this is hell in fights with a lot of movement, but it's the only way I have found to do decent damage. (also cat buff > wolf buff)

    but since we are so reliant on steady shot now you want the cast time as short as possible (same will apply with cobra shot when we get it) also with the new dot mechanic the more haste you have the quicker your dot will tick but it will still have the same max duration so with high haste you could get a couple of extra ticks between refreshes.

    it seems a shame what they have done to hunter as for now at least (may be different when we get aspect of the fox) that they have made us a more or less static class and a lot of fights don't allow that, did Yogg with team super Saturday and keeping with the group while getting off steady shots was quite hard more so when the gas clouds where on the move.

    I'll hold on my final judgement till I get to 85 but I'm really not enjoying hunter after these changes.
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    Old 10-18-2010, 04:22 PM
    Belara Belara is offline
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    Theorycrafting seems to suggest that mastery and crit are both still better than haste. Haste is a lot better now, obviously, but still not fantastic, as it doesn't make a huge difference to focus regen. I don't seem to have too much trouble standing still for long enough to get off a pair of steadies for the buff, and that gives me enough focus to refresh Serpent Sting and spam arcane in between. I've got a fair bit of haste, but I reforged about half of it and my excess hit to mastery. Haste is fine, but I wouldn't recommend stacking it to the exclusion of mastery or crit (depending on your gear and how many points you have in Careful Aim, I suppose). Another problem with haste is that most people are finding Auto-Shot is the biggest percentage of their damage at the moment. Unless your movement is really good, you're going to find yourself missing more of those as your haste gets higher, which also means you're missing out on useful procs and MM's mastery bonus.

    I'm finding BM really interesting at the moment. Damage isn't usually as high, but you can bring some handy buffs, and the rotation's a lot more challenging than MM's.
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    Old 10-18-2010, 04:44 PM
    PeachPest PeachPest is offline
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    This is the build im using : [url]http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cZcbGMhRrurohb:VzZZzMc[/url]

    I Seem to do ok with it, im a bit light on Glyphs because i dont have any decent majors unlocked.

    Last edited by PeachPest; 10-18-2010 at 04:47 PM.
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    Old 10-18-2010, 05:00 PM
    Chewwie Chewwie is offline
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    I have only raided once on Chew since the patch so I don't have an awful lot to add other than these few points:

    1. As Belara says, theorycrafting is pointing towards a Hit Cap>Agi>Mastery>Crit>Haste stat priority. Problem is that currently, unless you have loads of each stat (full 277 gear) its a REALLY difficult choice which stats to drop, and more importantly, how much. No-one is sure what lvls of each stat is optimal and, as there's no spreadsheets available yet, it's mostly trial and error for now >.<

    2. Movement severely gimps your dps now. Especially as your steady shots now a). provide you with your resource; and b). give you a really nice 8% haste buff if 2 are fired in succession (therefore almost essential). So, while I have always (and continue to) favour crit over haste, I can't dismiss the idea that it is POTENTIALLY better than crit, because it should reduce the crippling effect of movement on your dps. This fact is what is currently missing from the theorycrafting - because they do it standing still at a dummy.

    3. MM is clearly the way to go until we get Cobra shot at 81 (or was it 85?). These are the 2 builds I'm currently messing around with:
    [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cMZfMGMGoMuroc:zsVVR0M0z"]Max Careful Aim, without Silencing Shot[/URL]; and
    [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cMZfMuRGoMuroc:zsVVR0M0z"]1 in Careful Aim, with Silencing Shot[/URL]
    I'm using these for testing because silencing shot (or the lack of it) doesn't change my dps output and quite obviously, 30% crit should!

    However, overall, I love the change to focus and new pet buff system and I think it will ultimately make the class much more useful and fun to play. I also think that Blizz have done quite a good job with the CLASS REDEFINING changes so far. Lets give them chance to tweak it. Also, I'm going to give the theory crafters (and spreadsheet designers more improtantly) so more time. Patience my friends!

    EDIT: Forgot to add glyphs - fixed!
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    Last edited by Chewwie; 10-18-2010 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Glyphs added to builds :p
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    Old 10-18-2010, 10:18 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    I'm using [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cMZfMGouRMuroc:mkVsZMz"]this[/URL] still not sure on the glyphs yet, been trying to find one of arcane shot to replace the sting one. (also the site aint linking the right ones for some reason)

    but my main problem with theory crafting is it works on best case and not actual game play, while it does give a base number that you can push out in best conditions with that setup, it doesn't really say how it will preform in a raid.

    my biggest problem with mastery on MM is, is it on auto shots or all attacks? as either way once you are having to move you are reducing the number of shots you are landing making your mastery trigger less.

    but with the amount of changes that have gone in I guess it is just a wait and see time, to see how people get it to preform. I have been still getting some decent numbers with only about 3.25 mastery (from gear) about 28% haste and about 55% crit but guess only time will tell how it will all work out.
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    Old 10-19-2010, 07:12 PM
    Zigzig Zigzig is offline
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    I think what's so fascinating at the moment is how unclear everything is ! I thought I'd worked out a good build on the dummy but when it came to the LK fight last night I was getting about 10% more dmg overall by going back to full tier gear and using CS. The DPS is still poor overall but I still feel I'm working on it.

    The easiest thing I can say is that I'm actually quite enjoying my MM build for PvP.

    I think it's a shame to have lost ammo from an RP point of view - and also it removes a defining aspect of being an engineer and being able to craft the best ammo - but I realise I'm swimming against the tide here.

    This new Scattered Shots article I think is a good coalescing of what I'm picking up and from my little raid xp so far:

    [url]http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/10/18/scattered-shots-4-0-1-hunter-gems-glyphs-and-stat-weights/[/url]

    I think basically standing still at the target dummies is now even more misleading than it ever was. And therefore it makes sense to maximise dmg from dots and the signature shot - especially if that sig shot is going to get buffed.

    In terms of talent builds Chew - what do you see the benefit of Bombardment as ? Do you use multi-shot in a rotation - even on single targets? Ditto for Concussive Barage - you haven't glyphed for it - is there another benefit - or is it just a filler ?

    cheers

    Zig
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    Old 10-19-2010, 09:33 PM
    Del Del is offline
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    Multi-shot is now so weak for MM there is literally no point in ever using it on bosses so i personally ditched it for RiF, which procs fairly regularly on fights like Marrowgar, Putricide and Lich King.

    As for the arguement for Haste vs Crit it seems that although haste is the weaker stat, with a high mastery it becomes significantly more useful.

    Personally i've gemmed agi / haste in all the yellow sockets, put a haste scope on my bow, and swapped out Whispering Fanged Skull for War Token for a fairly hefty DPS increase.

    I played around with reforging for several hours and in the end i reforged my 6 main slots (Head, Chest, Shoulders, Legs, and Weapons) from crit to mastery and left the rest alone.

    As a ratio of stats:
    31% haste
    58% crit
    14.9 Mastery

    If you haven't been refreshing serpent sting with a 2piece proc, now is also the time to start as the critting aspect is making it seriously powerful.

    An addon i've been toying with recently is [URL="http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info18238-DPSCheck.html"]DPScheck[/URL] - I would highly recommend getting this while you try to optimize movement around your rotation as the training dummy is one thing but with 1.8s auto shots you lose a significant amount of DPS while moving these days
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    Last edited by Del; 10-19-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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    Old 10-19-2010, 09:45 PM
    Chewwie Chewwie is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zigzig View Post
    In terms of talent builds Chew - what do you see the benefit of Bombardment as ? Do you use multi-shot in a rotation - even on single targets? Ditto for Concussive Barage - you haven't glyphed for it - is there another benefit - or is it just a filler ?
    I don't really see either [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/spell=35110"]Bombardment [/URL] or [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/spell=35102"]Concussive Barrage[/URL] as dps increasing talents - especially on a boss fight. They're worthless on a boss fight without adds! They are however amazing where there are adds, in PvP and when soloing content. I'm loving them tbh! Also, the other 'filler' talents - [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/spell=82893"]Resistance is Futile[/URL], [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/spell=83489"]Termination[/URL] and [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/spell=34948"]Rapid Killing[/URL] - are terribad. Well, Rapid Killing is perhaps decent but not strong enough to be essential. I'll have a play around with [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/spell=82893"]Resistance is Futile[/URL] once I'm more comfortable with managing my focus and start casting Kill Command more.

    As for rotation (I know, it's a 'priority'! ), I'm finding that it's not too dissimilar to how I used to use the shots pre 4.0, but it's less strict and far more fun, that's for sure. I'm just not used to it in a raid yet. Arcane Shot has replaced Aimed Shot as my big hitting 'filler' shot, with no cooldown, yay! Generally, I'm using:

    SS>CS>Arcane>Steady>Steady>Arcane>Steady>Steady
    Kill Shot has priority when up (glyphed it's really awesome!)
    Aimed shot ONLY when I get a proc, but not before a Kill Shot or a second Steady Shot to maintain the haste buff.
    I drop Multi-Shots in place of Arcane where there's multiple targets (as I did with Aimed when that had no cast time).

    I'm still playing around and actually just enjoying trying to get to grips with the new shot/focus/pet buffs/priority.

    I read that article you linked. Some good stuff in there. Nice one, thanks!

    Chew
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    Old 10-20-2010, 07:45 AM
    Zigzig Zigzig is offline
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    Default Hunter Signature Shot Dmg Increased

    Yay - they didn't hang around with this one !

    [url]http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2010/10/hunter-signature-shot-damage-increased/[/url]

    Zig
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