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    Old 11-29-2010, 11:01 PM
    Redrothkin Redrothkin is offline
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    Absolutely, but the thing is it's still easy to look like a nab when you're doing 300 dps at level 65 when most classes are easily capable of hitting 600 - 700 - more if you're a tank or doing AOE, I certainly care in levelling dungeons when I see people like that.
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    Old 12-01-2010, 10:26 AM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    Aldriana has put up a [Url=http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t110016-cataclysm_raiding_faq_updated_sub_info_11_30_10_a/] Cataclysm FAQ[/url] which goes into detail about raiding at 85. For anyone interested in raiding as a rogue I strongly advise you read this. Summary is as follows.

    - No, you really can't play Subtlety. Early modeling shows it 5-10% behind Combat in DPS. While this will improve somewhat as raidwide crit rates rise, don't expect Subtlety to be competitive the way it has kinda been the past few weeks at 85, when everyone has roughly 1/3rd the crit chance that they do now.

    - Assassination is the premiere DPS spec, offering the best single target DPS in any encounter in which it gets to DPS during Execute Range (i.e. a boss that 'dies' at 50% would see Assassination Rogues fall significantly behind, more on that in a moment), as well as the best target-rich AoE DPS (5+ for short lived targets - think Ony Whelps - if I understand what's going on correctly in terms of the modeling, as few as 3+ if they live long enough that using Deadly Poison on the thrown and keeping 5 stacks up is a viable proposition.)

    - Glyphs are Backstab, Rupture, and Mutilate. Glyph of Vendetta is a terrible glyph if you are going to spend any time at all within execute range on your target. Do not use Glyph of Vendetta it is bad.

    - The death of Combat is somewhat exaggerated. In terms of theoretical output, Combat is within 3% or so of Assassination, well within the territory where we can go back to the old saw "spec for the weapons you have, not for the weapons you want". In other words, it's not better to use a shitty dagger just to stay Mutilate when you have a good Sword/Mace/Axe/Fist available to you. Combat is also arguably better than Assassination if: you can get good use out of high Blade Flurry uptime, or there is a significant need for you to output your highest DPS before the boss reaches 35% HP. (Examples would include Heroic LK where P2 is the challenge, etc.)

    - Glyphs are Sinister Strike, Adrenaline Rush, and Something. Something is probably Slice and Dice. Rupture and Revealing Strike are both possible contenders as well, but see below.

    -The hilariously complicated Combat rotation can basically be ignored. The difference in DPS between using RvS and Rupture properly, and just ignoring both abilities is about 200 DPS. Yes, 200 DPS.

    - Stat priorities: Agility Uber Alles. Basically, the best items are the ones that have the most Agility. Since generally every item of the same ilvl has the same amount of Agility, this can be reinterpreted as the best items are the ones that have the most sockets. Given equal numbers of sockets, the items with an Agility socket bonus that requires only Red gems, or +20/Yellow or blue gem are the best items. If this rule of thumb fails to help you decide, take the piece without crit rating, or, the piece with mastery for Mut, the piece with Haste for Combat. In general, secondary stats are sufficiently weak that you can basically run with one gearset for both specs. If you're seriously about min maxing every last bit, reforging when you respec is an option to cover the different priorities, but you can't go too far wrong just turning all your crit into Haste and calling it good for both specs in early running.

    - In spite of my statements above about how Really, Combat is Pretty Okay, the fact is that given the nature of the actual encounters, Combat will often be not that okay. This has a lot to do with the fact that Bandit's Guile takes about 30 seconds to stack, and Redirect being on a 1 minute cooldown, and the specific timers in place on encounters where you'll need to do frequent hard swaps. The easy fix is for them to put Redirect on Restless Blades. Whether they'll do that, or something else, who knows.

    - No, Wound Poison is not better DPS than Instant for Combat. It hasn't been since T8, and the loss of access to poison talents doesn't change that.
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    Old 12-08-2010, 11:13 PM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    [url]http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t109652-cataclysm_entry_level_gear_list/[/url]

    Great post giving you a list of the best pre-raid items and where to get them. It also has a rundown of every faction and it's rewards which is also really handy.
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    Old 12-09-2010, 10:49 AM
    Ross Ross is offline
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    Thanks for doing the hard work for us lazy rogues as always Zaev!
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    Old 12-10-2010, 12:25 PM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    Just to note, i'm in the middle of re-writing my original post into a more up to date and extensive guide. I'm hoping to have it up by the end of the weekend, I'm just waiting for some more information to be clarified by the guys at EJ. That said, it's only going to be about Combat and Assassination, as Subtlety still isn't a proper raiding spec so i'm not going to bother with it just yet. It's also going to be heavily PvE orientated, because I haven't had time to really do some proper research on the PvP side of things.
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    Old 12-14-2010, 03:42 PM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    Ok the update is done and now everything in the OP is correct for Cata. When I get time later i'll do a pvp section and a list of the best pre-raid gear.

    Oh and could some lovely moderator change the thread title to "Rogues in Cataclysm" please.

    Done my stabbly little friend! Uru
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    Last edited by Urumqi; 12-14-2010 at 04:00 PM.
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    Old 12-14-2010, 05:40 PM
    Ross Ross is offline
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    "Open from stealth with Mutilate"

    Really?
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    Old 12-14-2010, 08:51 PM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    Well sort of, there isn't any solid numbers yet on opening from stealth from Garrote or Mutilate.But the main thing is you want the overkill buff at the start of the fight and Muti will give you two combo points instead of garrote's one, which will keep S'n'D up longer while you add a 4 point rupture and a 4 point envenom. That's why its recommended.
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    Old 12-14-2010, 09:10 PM
    Ross Ross is offline
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    What's wrong with Ambush?
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    Old 12-14-2010, 11:07 PM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    Well the problem with ambush and Garrotte is that you have to wait to get into position before you can start damage, when you open with Mutilate there's no waiting, you can go straight in. Also Mutilate generates more Combo Points then Ambush and i'll need to double check this but I think it also does more damage.
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