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    Old 12-30-2012, 07:18 PM
    Patryn Patryn is offline
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    Default T2 Ammo Manufacturing

    Hi,

    I was wandering if it might be worth the corp looking into making T2 Ammo?

    We can do this for profit as this can be very profitable or we can sell to corp members at a discount.

    Inferno Fury Cruise Missiles - A 10 run BPC would cost 20.65mil to make but would sell for 40mil. There are BPCs on contracts for about 3 mil which makes 16mil profit.
    Javelin Large - Costs 37.5mil to make and sells for 65mil with BPCs for 4.5mil making 33mil profit.

    These are just quick numbers from sell prices in Citadel Space but we could possibly save money by inventing the BPCs (not sure how much invention costs).

    Also the biggest cost for missiles is Rocket Fuel which we can make through PI (Especially from the worm hole) and with the Railgun Ammo the biggest cost is Fullerides which we could save some money by putting in buy orders.

    Just an idea so let me know what you think.

    Thanks
    Soth
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    Old 12-31-2012, 07:56 AM
    jonsey_ponsey jonsey_ponsey is offline
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    Hey Soth

    Grats on your mention in PC Gamer this month if you haven't seen it

    I have all the blueprints for missiles and the ability to invent them into T2 blueprints. Having been churning out missiles for a few months and having done a market check last night then a 10 run of inferno cruise missiles has total material cost of 17,893,920 and a profit at current sell prices of 14,098,580 (using Jita pricing).

    However to copy, invent, and manufacture takes 61.81 hours per run so from start to finish would take just shy of 26 days if I've done my sums right.

    Profit per hour on this 396,520 for a run of 10.

    In addition i've found the prices of missiles to be very volatile as they are in very high demand and as such there is a lot of competition.

    In my experience I would say that you are better off making something with less demand but something where the demand is still stable such as warp scramblers. These have a current profit per hour of 2,313,250 and the pricing is less volatile.

    Also with warp scramblers you can normally sell to a buy order and still make a healthy profit avoiding the 0.01 game, however there are more components made out of moon goo so more difficult to acquire all the ingredients.

    For other blueprints Marcus donated quite a lot of ammo blueprints (other than missiles) to the corp yesterday. There's a google doc in the blueprint library thread in the secure forum with a list of corp blueprints.

    Karadis
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    Old 12-31-2012, 10:00 AM
    jonsey_ponsey jonsey_ponsey is offline
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    Apologies

    I got some sums wrong, profit per hour on inferno fury cruise missiles is 39,652, and on warp scramblers is 231,325.

    Karadis
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    Old 01-01-2013, 07:46 PM
    HoloDoc HoloDoc is offline
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    I have no idea how you do the calculations but it seems to be a fruitful endevour to do this both for corp use and market. Let me know how corp can support this. Ideally,we need a coordinator like Core is doing for the capitals.

    Cheers,
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    Old 01-03-2013, 01:20 PM
    jonsey_ponsey jonsey_ponsey is offline
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    I think we need to get to a point where we have more materials before we start thinking about taking on additional projects.

    If the corp starts buying ore off the corp members as suggested in another thread then this is something that we could look at.

    Once we are that point I am happy to co-ordinate something.

    Karadis
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    Old 01-04-2013, 03:34 PM
    Paul_S Paul_S is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jonsey_ponsey View Post
    Hey Soth


    I have all the blueprints for missiles and the ability to invent them into T2 blueprints.

    However to copy, invent, and manufacture takes 61.81 hours per run so from start to finish would take just shy of 26 days if I've done my sums right.


    Karadis
    Hi Karadis,

    I too make and sell missiles, currently making 50isk profit per one. I have some BPOs and could do with a quick guide on how to research them for ME and how to invent them for T2 BPCs. Do you have a few pointers?

    Red Bub
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    Old 01-07-2013, 12:01 PM
    jonsey_ponsey jonsey_ponsey is offline
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    Red Bub

    Iíll explain ME best I can below but invention is a little more involved so Iíll look to do a post in a new thread for that a bit later. In the meantime, a guide Iíve found useful on invention can be found at

    [url]http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Invention[/url]

    Every blueprint has some level of waste, usually 10%. Researching the ME level of a BPO reduces the amount of waste, and therefore, the amount of materials needed to manufacture from that BPO.

    You cannot research the ME level on a BPC, only on a BPO.

    You place a job to research the ME level of a blueprint in the same way as you would place a manufacturing job. The downside is that in high sec in particular there are very high queue times (a month plus) in order to place an ME job. Personally I go to low sec to do my ME research (I use a buzzard for this) but even there you will generally have a few days queue time.

    When trying to decide to what ME level you should research a blueprint there is a general rule of thumb. If you look at the component that you need the most of on any BPO then divide that quantity by 5 and round down. This number is the ME level you need to research in order to get no waste.

    This rule of thumb assumes the base waste of your BPO, before it is researched, is10%. If it isnít then you can calculate what the perfect ME level is by using the formula below.

    Perfect ME = 2 * amount required of highest qty component * base waste of BPO

    So if your highest qty was 2312 units of tritanium and the base waste of your BPO was 10% then the ideal ME for that BPO would be

    Perfect ME = 2 * 2312 * 0.1 = 462.4 (462 rounded down)

    However, due to the queue times, and the fact that some BPOís (i.e. ships) need massive amounts of ingredients to manufacture trying to attain an ME level that gives you no waste may not be the most efficient use of your research slots.

    The higher you research the ME level of a BPO the less effective that research becomes. The formula for how much waste a researched BPO will have is

    Waste = Base waste of BPO / (1 + ME Level)

    So a level 0 ME BPO will have its base waste, say 10%. Researching to level 1 will give a waste of

    Waste = 0.1 / (1 + 1) = 0.05 = 5%

    And so the waste is halved, however if you have already researched your BPO to ME level 100 and want to go to ME level 101, which will take the same amount of time as it did to go from 0 to 1, then the movement in waste is very small, see below.

    Waste @ ME level 100 = 0.1 / (1+100) = 0.00099 = 0.099%
    Waste @ ME level 101 = 0.1 / (1+101) = 0.00098 = 0.098%

    Even if you have very large material requirements, letís say 100,000 tritanium, then taking that ME to another level from 100 to 101 will only save you 1 unit of tritanium for every run. Itís up to you to decide what ME level you should go to for BPOs that have high material requirements. Iíd probably stop and have a think about it at around the 15 mark. You have to bear in mind that it costs to place research jobs and think of it in terms of how manufacturing jobs will I have to run for the waste saving to equal the cost of the ME research.

    When you place a ME research job you can do multiple levels at a time so if you want to go to level 50 enter 50 in the ME level box (assuming the BPO currently has an ME level of 0), you do not need to place the research job 50 times. I think there is a time limit of 30 days on the research job though so if you wanted to go to ME level 1000 then you might need to split it into several jobs depending on the BPO.

    As a slight aside, when you are manufacturing anything eventually you will get to a point where the thing that limits you is the number of manufacturing jobs you can place. As such, the time it takes to manufacture something is just as important as how many materials were needed. When you are manufacturing anything you shouldnít think in terms of profit but rather in terms of profit per hour.

    For example if you take a 24 hour day you are better making something that makes 10isk profit in an hour 24 times than you are making something that makes 100isk profit but takes 24 hours to make.

    As a result researching the productivity level of a blueprint which reduces the manufacturing time is just as important. Standard production efficiency waste is 25% and productivity level research works in the same way as ME research and in the same way Iíd have a think before taking it above level 15.

    The formula for productivity level is

    Manufacturing time = Base manufacturing time * (1 Ė {(0.2 * [productivity level / (productivity level +1)]})

    So if you have a manufacturing time of 4 hours going from productivity level 15 to 16 will give you the time savings below

    Manufacturing time @ PL 15 = 4 * (1 Ė (0.2 * (15/(15+1)))) = 3.25 hours
    Manufacturing time @ PL 16 = 4 * (1 Ė (0.2 * (16/(16+1)))) = 3.247 hours

    A massive saving of 17 seconds per run

    In summary calculate the perfect ME level of your BPO, then to train to that or 15 whichever is lower and train PL to level 15. After that have a think about whether it is worth it.

    Hope this helps.

    Karadis
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    Old 01-08-2013, 12:54 PM
    HoloDoc HoloDoc is offline
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    Great explanation, Karadis.
    Thanks a lot.

    I need to think about production and invention of Scourge missiles (T1 and T2, HML and may be HAMs). My missile consumption is getting straight through the roof and this will not change when i have my Tengu. Hob II's are another isk GRAVE .

    Cheers,
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    Old 01-08-2013, 01:40 PM
    Paul_S Paul_S is offline
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    Thanks Karadis,

    I am researching the ME on my missile BPOs to 20 as I type. Queues seem to be 30 odd days in high sec and I have some on 10 days in low sec (hopefully I can retrieve them ok)

    I am making good isk on Nova Cruise and Inferno Torps right now (Over 200 mil last week) and look forward to dipping my toes in the T2 market over the next few months.

    Sam - Where do you buy your Scourge T1 and for how much?
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    Old 01-08-2013, 06:00 PM
    jonsey_ponsey jonsey_ponsey is offline
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    Ammo and drones are a great example of where the corp could provide a service and make a bit of cash through providing things for other corp members as per the sort of things we were talking about in the purchasing ore from corp members thread.

    Karadis
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