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    Old 08-17-2010, 07:50 PM
    Zael Zael is offline
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    The open recruitment policy of PCG while extremely generous and really helpful to new players can be a bit of a poison chalice for raid leading. Darieth says it well when he talks about how PCGs ethics and Progression raiding are somewhat at odds with eachother. PCG is a social, relaxed guild, progression raiding is the opposite to this. It can be hard work and sometimes really tough. Most guilds have the benefit of recruiting 6 or 7 healers and then saying ok, no more healers. PCG doesn't have this luxury, anyone can get in, but (and this may seem harsh) just because you get in, never expect or even assume you'll be progression raiding.

    The raiders we have who want to do progression raiding but aren't getting picked are in a unique position in the guilds of wow, usually if you aren't part of a progression guilds actual progression you won't be in the guild. So here is where PCGs open recruitment comes in handy, it allows you to press against the starting 25, by asking "experts", improving Gear or just through plain bullheadedness in terms of signing twice a week every week. Darieth and Akee aren't elitist, they are methodical, and while that may seem the same from the outside I can assure you it's not. If you're good enough you'll get picked.

    As Klog says, every one has been in this position. I started with PCG when we started raiding Naxx and I was in the progession raid for it and for Ulduar, then I went away for four months and came back to being at the bottom of the ladder, behind Ross and Blacktempest and others. You just have to try and not get frustrated and stick with it, the benefit of having to fight for a place, is when you get it you're probably not going to lose it.
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    Old 08-17-2010, 10:32 PM
    Klogaroth Klogaroth is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wyrmy View Post
    "Gearscore is utterly meaningless and does not play any part in how we select our raid teams"
    hmm the actual Event states a minimum average of gear level.
    This isn't gearscore however. Basically what we are saying is be geared with gear from ICC normal modes if you want to do ICC heroic modes. We go a few steps further than gearscore and actually look at peoples gear choices, stats and spec. Similar, I'll admit, but you won't find many in the guild who will look at your gearscore on it's own.

    With regards to going from uber to donkey, that's fine at first, but sometimes there just won't be room that week. In an ideal world we would be able to have eough raid spots for everyone to do exactly the type of raiding they want and have a number of people interested that gives each group a good raid comp and is a multiple of 25. Unfortunately that just doesn't happen, so there is waiting involved in breaking into an established raid team.

    Last edited by Klogaroth; 08-17-2010 at 10:47 PM.
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    Old 08-17-2010, 10:50 PM
    Klogaroth Klogaroth is offline
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    At least you won't spend months being told to do the harder job of tanking all the adds while the proper tanks get to slack off tanking the boss.
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    Old 08-18-2010, 07:28 AM
    Urumqi Urumqi is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Klogaroth View Post
    At least you won't spend months being told to do the harder job of tanking all the adds while the proper tanks get to slack off tanking the boss.
    Oi!!!!!
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    Old 08-18-2010, 10:30 AM
    Akee Akee is offline
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    [QUOTE=Zael;20872.........Most guilds have the benefit of recruiting 6 or 7 healers and then saying ok, no more healers. .[/QUOTE]

    ^^ This. Our situation is a strange one, we don't recruit specific classes or roles that we're short on, and we try and provide a raiding structure that almost anyone can get involved in regardless of their experience.

    The trouble comes, as always, when we have more suitable players than raid spots (which is almost always).
    This is heightened when looking at those raid spots in the more progression focused raids.

    I'll just say that when we moved to the two 25-man raid team structure, it was to give the guild a platform to work on the later Icecrown bosses. At the time we were struggling to get anywhere, and that was partly because we were rotating in so many players each week (disrupting our rhythm and having to re-learn fights each week) , and we also felt the need to give anyone who signed a raid spot, or at least rotate them in as soon as we could, which ineveitably leads to some of the better players sitting out for some less good.

    The good news is that we have massively incresed our progression since moving to the separate raid teams, and making performance the only real criteria for getting into Donkey. The bad news is that if you're the 4th best tank in the guild, you wont be getting in if the other 3 tanks show up. (Similarly if you're the 3 best rogue and the 2 other rogues show etc.)


    Anyway, I've wandered a bit off-topic. so to adress wymrys original post.
    Best thing to do to get into donkey is to keep signing up, make sure you have a good offspec (and you know how to use it), if you're not chosen to go striaght away, stick around! We often have disconnects or emergencies and need to fill a raid spot.

    As to the kingslayer run, we're running a double lock out this coming weekend (sunday and monday) to give us time to get to Arthas and kill him a second time on 25-man. I'd like to do this a few more times before the expansion, but many of our players would prefer to spend time working on heroic 25-man modes, so we're trying to please everyone as best we can.

    I know it doesnt relate to you as you cant raid tuesdays, but i'd love to get the Tuesday night raid team up to see arthas, but if last nights performance is anythig to go by, we're still a long way off
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    Old 08-18-2010, 10:30 AM
    Akee Akee is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wyrmy View Post
    Hello,

    I was wondering what i can do to get into the team Donkey runs?

    I forgot to mention that massive bribes work too!
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    Old 08-18-2010, 11:45 AM
    Wyrmy Wyrmy is offline
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    Hmmm.

    Maybe its worth changing my raid night back to Tuesdays then and trying to get into the Uber run, thats if Akee still needs healers.

    As far as dual speccing goes, I was told a while back to offspec to Holy which I have done, but lets be honest unless the current holy specced priest in Donkey runs dosent sign then I wont get in, oh hang on thats Darieth

    I know this is a tender topic, and people think I am being unfair in raising it, but as we all pay to play its best if we concentrate on what we want to do, thats why I asked the original question.

    Wyrmy
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    Old 08-18-2010, 12:16 PM
    Aphaeas Aphaeas is offline
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    I certainly do not think that it is unfair to have asked the question. As we have already discussed we are often oversubscribed and people do not get into raids, asking either why didn't I get in or how could I improve my chances can be very constructive.

    For example, if you sign up for a raid every week and not get it it could be for a reason such as you need to improve your gear or, your not fully gemmed etc. By asking you can get some usually constructive answers which you can often work on and improve your chances of getting in. If it is simply down to the set up of the raid for the bosses being done then there is nothing you can do but at least you know that and can happily keep signing up.

    Asking what can I do to improve or would me improving/getting an offspec help the raid etc then you are helping yourself and letting the raid leaders know that you are serious about what you are doing and raiding.

    Too often we hear, 'You didn't pick me becasue you are friends with .....' or people getting annoyed because they once again did not get chosen. It's refreshing to hear someone ask if there are any ways they can improve or whether they are doing something wrong. Having said that, it is not useful to immediatly whisper the raid leader as soon as you get asked to leave for tips as they have a raid to lead. Simply send an in game post requesting a chat, catch them when they are not preparing for or running a raid or use the forums.

    There is no guarentee to get into any raid but by being prepared and having done everything you can to learn to play your class or improve your dps/healing then you ceratinly have as good of chance of anyone else who has signed.
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    Old 08-18-2010, 01:05 PM
    Spectrus Spectrus is offline
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    The problem with raiding and guilds is that there will always be an element of competition for spots. Unfortunately, this is unavoidable.

    If you are not as experienced, well geared or capable as another player, then you may have to step aside. It might be painful, but that is the reality of progression raiding.

    Therefore, players have to decide if they are willing and able to put the time and effort into being the best in the guild at a particular role. This is the only way you can guarantee a spot.

    In reality, not everyone has the time or inclination to commit themselves to being 'the best' at WoW. Thankfully, PCG being the awesome guild that it is, we have put in place a casual raiding structure for those who take a more relaxed approach to the game. As a result, there a plenty of opportunities for everyone to raid each week, whatever their level of play.

    So I would say, if you are a more causal player, then enjoy playing WoW casually. If you are a hardcore player, then enjoy the hardcore progression raids. It's all about finding out what works for your particular situation.

    In the end, the people who participate in the casual raids are just as important to the success of the guild as the hardcore players. Ultimately we are a community of gamers, not a group of elitist mercenaries. At least I hope we are!

    Last edited by Spectrus; 08-18-2010 at 01:08 PM.
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    Old 08-18-2010, 01:18 PM
    Ayumis Ayumis is offline
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    Be better or be Uber

    Only joking but Uber really could do with good regular players to progress.

    Awesome had the same problem as Uber currently has when Spectrus and a few of us left.

    Aphaeas built the team back up and now they are progressing faster than a speeding bullet.

    It would be great if Uber could do the same - I went last night and it was great, But I have the problem that I'm normally busy Tuesdays else I would sign up regularly.
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