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    Old 08-17-2010, 12:08 PM
    Wyrmy Wyrmy is offline
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    Hello,

    I was wondering what i can do to get into the team Donkey runs?
    My Gear Score is higher then some other people who constantly get in, and every time I have healed 25 man heriocs I have done well (or been told I have).
    So, what have I done wrong? If I am not playing right then please tell me, no point me flogging a dead horse logging in to be dissapointed again, it just suprises me that we have 682 members but only a few ICC runs on going, are we ever planning to just do ICC25 again, or for the sake of progression is it herioc only?
    I can understand people wanting to do ICC25 on herioc if they have already the "Kingslayer" title, but for the 100s of people in PCG who have not cleared Icecrown Citadel would it not be in the guilds best interests to help those who have not completed it do so?

    My circumstance is a strange one where (shock) I cannot be online every night, and Mondays and Fridays are my only log ins, Im enjoying the 10 man LNICC runs which Denika is running incredibly on Fridays, but would like to see the 25 man content too.

    I believe there is a post talking of doing Kingslayer runs in the future, but I would like to kill the endgame boss before it gets stupidly easy with the 40% buff.

    Any help, helps

    Wyrmy
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    Old 08-17-2010, 12:21 PM
    Cataclysmic Cataclysmic is offline
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    We run 25 man normal ICC on Tuesday evenings, a totally seperate lockout, aimed at gearing up new raiders and giving people experience of ICC at a slower pace than on Team Donkey runs.

    We have a description of our raid structure available on these forums, Team donkey is a hardcore progress focused 25 man raid.
    We are unusual in that we are able to run 2 25 man lockouts per week with more than just alts.

    As you say, we have 682 members, and this means that we cannot structure 25 man runs around 1 person. if you are not able to raid on Tuesday evenings when our second ICC 25 lockout runs then that is regrettable.

    The problem is that we have people raiding ALOT each week, between 10 and 25 man runs on mains and alts, and there is simply no time to put together a third ICC lockout with enough people geared for it.

    There will not be a 40% buff, and Late Night ICC and Saturday's Team Super are both getting fairly close to the Lich King, so it would be worth persevering with those groups if you just want to kill Arthas.

    Quote:
    My Gear Score is higher then some other people who constantly get in
    Gearscore is utterly meaningless and does not play any part in how we select our raid teams
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    Old 08-17-2010, 12:47 PM
    Chewwie Chewwie is offline
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    Hi Wyrmy,

    I understand that it must be frustrating for you not to get into the 25 man of your choice. We do run another, but as you say, you can't raid that night. I don't think that's a good enough basis for you to expect inclusion in one team though. Darieth (as does Akee when he leads) takes the members of 'Donkey Raid' into ICC 25 based on one criteria: it's the best team he can make for the job. It's not ever based on personal factors. Ever. That wouldn't be fair to the other 24 people. I hope you can understand that.

    So, with the policy out of the way (which I don't quote just to be officious xD), I hope Darieth and perhaps Akee (because they lead the raids you refer to) can add some constructive advice based specifically on your role in the raids - cos I'm next to clueless with healing
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    Old 08-17-2010, 01:06 PM
    Aphaeas Aphaeas is offline
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    Hi Wyrmy,

    I can understand the position you are in an unfortunalty you are not the only one who has this issue. All of the raid leaders (10, 25 and fun runs) realise that despite the number of raids we run each week there are always people who feel disappointed or left out. If you look at the guild calander for almost any week you can see that there are ICC raids (normal and/or heroic) running most days and it is difficult to find a space to run a third ICC 25 man group.

    Chewwie is right saying that the selection for raid is mainly done by getting the best set up together to run a good progression raid and personal preference is not part of this. Alongside this you have to be fully gemmed and enchanted, have good gear, know the tactics and bring flasks and food etc. I am sure that you already know this and come prepared every week so the next step would be to chat to others of your class who either get into the Team Donkey on a regular basis or who you know are 'experts' in their class. These people should be happy to help you and give you some good tips on playing your class in general or specifically in ICC.

    Aside from that I would suggest you continue to raid with your 10 man group so that you will at least experience ICC, the LK fight and heroics but also persevere with the 25 mans, go to Team Uber as and when you can (if possible) and keep signing for Donkey.

    Hope that helps.

    Aphaeas
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    Old 08-17-2010, 01:17 PM
    Cataclysmic Cataclysmic is offline
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    Another thing to remember is, Darieth does usually keep a list of people he asks to step out, and we do try our best to rotate, however, as I said, Team Donkey is focused on one thing: progression, unfortunately this does mean the raid elader often has to make difficult decisions about who they take, dependent on raid composition and the bosses that we are trying to go for.
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    Old 08-17-2010, 01:36 PM
    Darieth Darieth is offline
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    Hi guys,

    Thanks for those responses. It should also be noted that we don't chose Raid Teams arbitrarily; Blizzard design their top-end encounters with Guilds in mind. In order to be successful, you're meant to keep a relatively stable team, ensure good raid composition and maintain a high level of performance from everyone. This means that, in order to be a successful progression raider, you do need to attend fairly regularly. I don't mean every raid or even every week; but don't be surprised, if you sign up once a month or less, if I'm not eager to kick a regular, reliable attendee.

    In short, PCG is for everyone, progression raiding is not, and there's nothing we can do to change the basic requirements of top-end raiding. I believe that there are enough members of PCG interested in progression to continue testing ourselves against the hardest content, which necessitates a certain approach. Currently, only 2 nights per week are designated as progression raids, which allows 5 nights, 7 daytimes and 7 late-night slots to be used for all manner of other WoWing.

    Regarding Wyrmy specifically, I can only see that I've left you out 2 times in the last 7 weeks (which is 11 raids). If you think you're as well-geared and good as the players I have taken, then I'll do my best to give it a go next time.
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    Old 08-17-2010, 03:11 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    all you can do is keep trying, I have been left out of the 25 man a few times, but if you do keep trying and keep turning up you will get in at times, just as said above not everyone can get in every raid. the raid leaders do have a hard job having to turn people away due to the amount that turn up, but if you do keep trying you will get in some times as some weeks the more regular players may not turn up or they may be short of your class. but if your in the DPS your running the same gauntlet as most other DPS players on trying to get in.

    I'm not saying that some people don't get a space every week but they are generally the people who are top of their class and have shown that they always come prepared and can adapt to new content, it's like in a raid I would never expect to be picked over hunters such as chewie as they really do know the class and how to work it best. but if you do keep trying you will eventually get in and if you can prove you can keep up it will give more chance they will have you back in future.

    It is a pain to sit and wait to see if you get in a raid or not but at this level of content they really do need to take the best they can make from the sign ups and to be honest I wouldn't like to be in Darieths possession (or any of the other raid leaders) of having to send people away each raid.
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    Old 08-17-2010, 04:53 PM
    Klogaroth Klogaroth is offline
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    Everyone who raids has been asked to step out at some point, and except those who were here from the start everyone has had that period of trying to get into raiding with an established group of raiders.

    Just make sure you do all the right things - have buff food, flasks, reagents, turn up on time, have the right addons. Past that you just have to be patient and keep trying to find ways to improve yourself.

    Back in the day I was about 8th tank down the line.
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    Old 08-17-2010, 06:31 PM
    Wyrmy Wyrmy is offline
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    Thanks for replys,

    "Gearscore is utterly meaningless and does not play any part in how we select our raid teams"
    hmm the actual Event states a minimum average of gear level.

    My main concern is that Donkey has a chosen Disco priest, as a Disco priest and the need for only one this leaves me signing up until I see that there is another Disco priest then unsigning as I will not get in.

    I was told the other week to improve my gear, my gear is more then adequate for ICC25 heriocs so this puzzled me, that why I thought id ask if it was how I played that meant my omition.

    I also did months in team Uber and didnt see any progression, and as the original idea of the progressive run against the new run was to do the Uber run, then get into the Donkey run, I thought that each week there would be at least some sort of rotation in the Donkey team.

    I understand the hardship of Raid Leading, I used to organise large raids and know the pain of leaving people out, but I did rotate people or at least give them a whisper explaining they would get in next week. The team of progressionals does seem to be made up of 20 same toons each week and the lucky few who get the remaining slots, I can understand this also but it doesnt make it any better when your left on the bench so to speak.

    Wyrmy
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    Old 08-17-2010, 06:40 PM
    Darieth Darieth is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wyrmy View Post
    Thanks for replys,

    My main concern is that Donkey has a chosen Disco priest, as a Disco priest and the need for only one this leaves me signing up until I see that there is another Disco priest then unsigning as I will not get in.
    a) No Team has a 'chosen' anything.
    b) If you unsign, how am I supposed to record that you're being left out?
    c) Dual spec. If we have enough of one spec, cultivate another to increase your usefulness.
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