Go Back   PC Gamer Forums > Play with PC Gamer > Starcraft II

    Reply
     
    Thread Tools Display Modes
      #1   Report Post  
    Old 03-27-2013, 05:17 AM
    Stopngo Stopngo is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 543
    Default Butthurt zerg

    I'm a bit distressed by the phallic protoss so here's a rant.....

    They have a simple style, they build units.... then go and attack. That's what they do, it's like an RTS tutorial for a C&C campaign game...build a big force then attack your opponent and win

    The Protoss deathball is impossible for zerg. They have so much power that it is practically untouchable. So toss need to be defeated in other ways, sneak attacks, going round the back, being where the deathball isn't.

    Now, if you're where the deathball isn't....theoretically you're trying to harrass mineral line with lings or a few roaches etc

    but you can't now, because of that Photon Cannon thing on top of the nexus.

    You know if I take a small group of roaches to the toss base early in game, I've gone all in to do that..If I can bust thru the wall, and kill the army and attack the probes, I can win that way...but now I can't because an early attack is now off limits too.... So i now need a midgame attack force to do this...but midgame is where toss starts to grow strong. So i'll need more cheese roaches to do the same job...I get 20 roaches and all he needs is an immortal which he now has, because I get 20 roaches instead of 8 and it's the same thing, if I bust thru the single immortal, cannon and sentry I'm left with the same three roaches to attack the probeline and the nexus cannon does the same thing.

    so, to bust the protoss you have to kill them early.??..except blizzard are no longer allowing you to do that either...The commentators were saying they expected Terran to be OP, but again it seems that Protoss is again turning into the favoured race.. I mean just how many Tier 3 units has that team been given?

    The Oracle and Tempest were designed so that Protoss could make more use of the Stargate, given that it was an unpopular choice for most of Wings of Liberty (outside of PvZ, and even then only for the Mothership). Besides Zealot and Dark Templar harass, Protoss players felt they needed to rely too much on Colossus "deathball" armies to win the game for them as their standard strategy.


    So, each team has a way to win, except protoss been complaining about theirs? So Blizzard give them a whole bunch of new avenues those players can use to win instead, and not taken away any of their overpower in other aspects of the race..
    That was their thing, now they still have that but have been given whole other lines of attack and defence... harassment, for example.... I know talk about balance is poop and all that, but seriously, they rob us of the infestor, and give us the useless swarm hosts which is countered by an observer ....and vipers which are tier 3 and practically useless while trying to escape the powerful protoss ray guns.

    What does blinding cloud do against toss? The viper had no use against anything that isn't a seige tank. coz the army will move out of the cloud in one second..it won't pin stuff in place like an old style fungal, or area denial like the FF it won't kill anything like a Psionic Storm...it's anti siege tank unit and nothing else, where as toss been given a whole slew of pure anti zerg weapons.

    If a bunch of zealots, immortals and sentries run up your ramp and there is literally no amount of roaches or lings you can build to deal with it. If a sentry immortal rush is well controlled there is no way it can be held by player of equal strength.

    If a deathball army arrives in my natural and I'm prepared for it, I've macroed better, I have speed roaches and hydra's corruptors are on their way...I cannot chase down and kill this army, because it simply disappears off the map and goes home to it's wall and cannons.

    That Oracle thing is so overpowered...sure if yu know it's coming, but when a stargate is built in my fourth it's not so easy to spot with an overlord...you don't wanna put spores before you have to because we don't have enough drones as it is...you have to drone as much as you can to catch whatever toss sends...So if an oracle or two arrives from a proxy gate, you can't kill it, primarily because your queen dies first, then the drones are one shotted by it's fucking insane ray gun.

    The damage on that thing is just fucking stupid.

    But i spose it fits the lore...The purpose of the protoss is to wipe out Zerg..entaro tassadar and all that.

    Then when you think about all that...Hallucination is now default, they still got the DT, HT and archon....all antizerg tools...its a bit ridiculous really..

    See, I'm a low level player, I'm reticent to say I'm bronze, even tho that's where I am. I regularly take out Golds and Silvers even Plats now and again.

    But when play close games against better 'Gold' terran's or zerg's the chart reveal a few things, mostly I have slightly less APM than my opponent, the red and blue lines are often tangled throughout. with my opponent being better and just overpowering me at the end...gg, great game. When these similar gg's great games occur against toss, ie, the red/blue lines are entangled and he just overpowers me at the end. He usually has half my APM and is in Silver not Gold or Plat

    It's just an observation of my own games,

    With what zerg has, I don't think I can go 50/50 against a guy of my own skill level against Toss with the tools they have, and the vast array of choices they can make.

    what can we do? drone up and build roaches, I spose, coz that's all we can do....that's all that has been included in the game.

    It strikes me that Blizzard are suggesting zerg need to get to hive earlier. The Ultra is slightly better than it was but nothing else in the hive is anything more than a novelty..the viper actually is anti zerg...all it can do is kill our own buildings. The broodlord has been nerfed as part of the infestor nerf, that combo is no longer viable like it was and it still takes an age to get them...Brood Lords are not tier 3 they're more like Tier 5, Hatch>Lair>Spire>Hive>Greater Spire>Corruptors>Broods

    Tier 7 sorry......Ooops I forgot infestor pit...Tier 8 then.

    Last edited by Stopngo; 03-27-2013 at 07:09 AM.
    Reply With Quote
      #2   Report Post  
    Old 03-27-2013, 01:09 PM
    Ctrlphr34k Ctrlphr34k is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Aug 2011
    Posts: 837
    Default

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stopngo View Post
    I'm a bit distressed by the phallic protoss so here's a rant.....

    ...

    The Oracle and Tempest were designed so that Protoss could make more use of the Stargate, given that it was an unpopular choice for most of Wings of Liberty (outside of PvZ, and even then only for the Mothership). Besides Zealot and Dark Templar harass, Protoss players felt they needed to rely too much on Colossus "deathball" armies to win the game for them as their standard strategy.

    1) I agree. The oracles are totally BS OP. And I Main protoss; their only problem is their energy drain - their advantage is that unless you're Flash, you're not gonna spot them coming in and pull probes/drones/scv's until its too late.

    2) You're grumbling about zerg vs protoss. Go muta/viper, pull any colossi/archons out of position with vipers while the protoss is building his deathball, and mow *EVERYTHING* else down with a mass flock of mutas... the thing about protoss (besides the aforementioned oracles, that can't shoot up) is that our armies are REALLY frikkin slow compared to mutas. The only thing we have that's fast enough to keep up is the phoenix - and we will *NEVER* *EVER* have enough if you go muta first unless we're going for a skytoss/proxy oracle opening. In which case, just build a bunch of lings and go kill the protoss - the most he will have is cannons, oracle + tech to stargate are REALLY gas heavy, and the only defense you can do without gas is zealot/cannon. And non-charge zealots suck vs lings.

    But yea, muta/ling is one of the hardest builds for protoss to deal with. I f**king hate mutalisks.
    __________________
    Programmer, Gamer, Livestreamer (on occasion), and I draw pictures sometimes.
    My wife makes cute things (link)

    Followz me on ze twitterz - @ctrlphr34k
    Reply With Quote
      #3   Report Post  
    Old 03-27-2013, 02:50 PM
    Stopngo Stopngo is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 543
    Default

    Well, that viper advice is simply lip service, that's like saying, All you have to do to get masters is beat all the diamonds. It's just words on a page.

    I'm bronze man.

    To position a viper, to steal a unit requires too much from me. Life, Hyun, Vortix, Snute, sure...but me nope, not a hope in hell...that's pro level micro stuff in response to the toss, merely pressing his build coloss button.



    However having said that, I think your muta advice is worth switching to for a time... I tried it out on a gold tosser

    Here's the game

    [url=http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=280221][/url]
    Reply With Quote
      #4   Report Post  
    Old 03-27-2013, 05:40 PM
    Ctrlphr34k Ctrlphr34k is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Aug 2011
    Posts: 837
    Default

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stopngo View Post
    Well, that viper advice is simply lip service, that's like saying, All you have to do to get masters is beat all the diamonds. It's just words on a page.

    I'm bronze man.

    To position a viper, to steal a unit requires too much from me. Life, Hyun, Vortix, Snute, sure...but me nope, not a hope in hell...that's pro level micro stuff in response to the toss, merely pressing his build coloss button.



    However having said that, I think your muta advice is worth switching to for a time... I tried it out on a gold tosser

    Here's the game

    [url=http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=280221][/url]
    Ok... having watched the first chunk of the game, I can spot a *LOT* of things you're not getting quite right; prod me next time you're on steam, we'll do that shared-watching the replay thing over mumble or summat and I'll try and point out what you can do (besides tacktics and micro) to improve your play, hopefully get you up to silver if nothing else
    __________________
    Programmer, Gamer, Livestreamer (on occasion), and I draw pictures sometimes.
    My wife makes cute things (link)

    Followz me on ze twitterz - @ctrlphr34k
    Reply With Quote
      #5   Report Post  
    Old 03-28-2013, 01:30 AM
    Stopngo Stopngo is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 543
    Default

    seriously?

    ur jokin' right?
    Reply With Quote
      #6   Report Post  
    Old 03-28-2013, 11:38 AM
    Ctrlphr34k Ctrlphr34k is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Aug 2011
    Posts: 837
    Default

    About shared replay? Nope.

    About you making some pretty common mistakes that *will* be keeping you in silver? Nope, not joking there either; you're doing a lot of things the right way but at the wrong time or without thinking through why (e.g. when you built a bunch of spines - with your knowledge of the protoss at that point iirc you really didn't need to build them = minerals + drones that could have gone to getting your 3rd up faster/maxing drones on your natural) - its the same sort of things I had to learn to get my silver promotion
    __________________
    Programmer, Gamer, Livestreamer (on occasion), and I draw pictures sometimes.
    My wife makes cute things (link)

    Followz me on ze twitterz - @ctrlphr34k
    Reply With Quote
      #7   Report Post  
    Old 03-28-2013, 04:54 PM
    Gamer Gamer is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jun 2010
    Posts: 578
    Default

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stopngo View Post
    I'm bronze man.
    That's your problem.
    Reply With Quote
      #8   Report Post  
    Old 03-28-2013, 07:08 PM
    Swiss Swiss is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2011
    Posts: 819
    Default

    What an elegant solution, all you need to do is stop being in bronze and you'll get promoted!
    Reply With Quote
      #9   Report Post  
    Old 03-28-2013, 09:15 PM
    Gamer Gamer is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jun 2010
    Posts: 578
    Default

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Swiss View Post
    What an elegant solution, all you need to do is stop being in bronze and you'll get promoted!
    No, but it's the dumest thing ever to complain about balance in bronze. I could only build workers and win 100%, workers OP?
    Reply With Quote
      #10   Report Post  
    Old 03-29-2013, 04:48 AM
    Stopngo Stopngo is offline
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 543
    Default

    CtrlPhreak suggested that all that is required to remove the protoss deathball is to get muta viper, simply just use the vipers to abduct all the colossi...My point is that a silver level toss need only press build coloss and it rallies behind it's army....but to micro those vipers over the top of the gateway army to steal the coloss is too hard...that little tongue he's got is very short. There is a disparity between the skills required to use the collos and to deal with them at low level, I can get corruptors to nibble away at them of course,

    How is balance an invalid point at low level? Seeing as you're famous amongst PCgamer forumites as being someone who thinks anyone below your esteemed mastery level doesn't even deserve to own the game. HoTS costs the same price for low level players of which they form the largest group... or are you paying more for your pro version?.. and besides you've even done this yourself Zealos...There's replays on here, of you massing lings off 5 bases and cryin like a girl when the coloss/deathball comes an wipes 'em all out for ya.

    When you gave me a bit of coaching sesh with Red Leader Zala the only thing you said to me whilst watching my game was. ' I don't know why you're bronze, you seem pretty solid to me'

    I have a 5-1 record against Quetza (that's ur account isn't it CtrlPhr34k?) when we were both silver, a record I remember well and am smuggly proud of. 1 win against a Terran build u were trying out on Daybreak and 4 wins against your silver protoss. You beat me on Ohana when I let ya mass Thors trying to outmacro you and take them on with a Lair army....Decision making again... has always been my problem...you mention me building spines...That's just something I'm doing by default as I'm doing overlord drops at the moment, muta' too, I just grab spines out the front of natural by default...you're right it's unthinking, but hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

    I've sat watching your stream shaking my head too man

    I made this thread to complain about toss and all the hard to deal with options they have and have been given..compared with us who are still a drab and boring ling/roach/ hydra/muta basis. not to talk about my own level of skill, which is known, not improving and still capable of beating some of you guys now and again.

    In Starcraft as soon as you lose a game your opponent wants to become your mentor. I played a 9-pool against a toss a few days ago. It failed, it was close but he managed to fight off my 8 lings and force safety with cannons. I did some damage and often with a 9-pool its not all-in if you do damage at least.. but I gg anyway..after the game he pm's me and tells me that if I see toss FFE, i can safely take a third....yeah, thanks man. I tried it again a few games later, and the opponent is telling me in game...if you see toss take an early natural you can safely grab a third....yeah, thanks man....but I'm trying fucking 9-pools at the moment fuck off!

    So, on my NA account I've been placed bronze again. I got out-played by a platinum player, I beat 2 silver players who were not really of silver standard and a rank newbie terran who was asking me about hotkeys. I got 2 gate proxied (would you believe?) by a gold player whom I was determined to beat. I was pretty gutted about that, the guy was sympathetic, he was a mentor too...you should've drone scouted it...yeah, thanks man. Of course this happened because I'm bronze, it could never happen to any of you... With all the aircraft toss got now, pheonix's with a build time of 0, better voidrays, fast voidrays with green sniper rifles, off map bombardment. I forgot they still have gateways..it's been years since I've seen one they even got to keep their carrier too...'Take it away if you like Blizzard' Toss players said, but at least give us something of the same shape to look at....OK said Blizzard, we really love you guys, you can keep it.

    So anyway, I started off on NA HoTS as a bronze. Which suprised me because I thought it was gonna give me silver at least...no biggie...I'll have some fun with SH drops which might be an avenue for entertainment in our weak and boring race...

    and..you know what?., i expect my macro to slip while doing it...and DT's will kill me coz as I'm swiggin my coffee, i'll forget to morph overseers.
    Reply With Quote
    Reply

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off

    Forum Jump