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    Old 07-24-2010, 04:05 PM
    Buceph Buceph is offline
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    Default PVP Basics and a Frigate Roam Corp Op

    There seems to be a couple of people interested in PVP. What I plan to do, is once you can all fly the following ships, with their appropriate modules, we head out to low-sec and get our PewPew on. I'll give it a few days so you can all train up what you need. What follows is the ships you should fly, plus some tips on PVP and fitting for PVP. If you've any questions, I'm sure myself or the other more experienced players will help out.



    The ships you need for the roam are the following;

    Rifter for Minmatar
    Punisher for Amarr
    Incursus for Gallente
    Kestrel for Caldari if you've trained missiles
    Merlin for Caldari if you've trained Hybrid Turrets.


    A couple of fitting and PVP tactics and tips and their reasons.

    A general rule: Whatever the bonus is on your ship, fit according to that.

    In general, don't fit Tier 4 level modules, they're extremely expensive and don't add a huge amount of damage or bonuses, plus most of the time Tech 2 items are cheaper. In PVP (especially as you learn) you will lose your ship. So fly the best frigate for the job, but keep it cheap. Remember, insurance only pays out for the ship, not the modules.

    For PVP you want a buffer tank, not an active tank. A buffer tank is when you use thinks like armor plates for armor tanks and shield extenders for shield tanks. The idea with PVP is that you outlast short bursts of intense damage. Active tanks are used to tank a lot of damage spread out over time. Generally in PVP you won't have enough time for active repair modules to work enough to be better than buffer modules. Of course having passive resists is also good. Generally you put resists on the weak area of your ship, so if you're shield tanking, you put the resists on for EM damage. EFT will tell you where you're weak.

    For PVP you want Tackling Gear on your ship, so Warp Disruptor, and Warp Scrambler, and sometimes a Stasis Webifier. Tackling works like this; a Warp Disruptor has a range of 20km+. However it provides one "point" of tackle/scramble. This point stops someone from warping off. Sometimes in low-sec people fit Warp Core Stabilizers. What these do is neutralize the effect of tackle. So one WCS neutralizes one "point" of tackle. In this case you'd need two warp disruptors targetting him to keep him there. Or one Warp Scrambler, as those provide two points of tackle (They also neutralize the ability to use MWDs.) The downside to Warp Scramblers is that their range is only about 8-10km. (And inside that zone you can be webbed (I'll get to that in a minute,) and neuted, where all your capacitor is drained so you can't activate and run modules.) Stasis Webifiers don't provide any tackle or "point" what they do is slow a ship down by 50% or so. Again Web's are short range, so the short range problems come into things.

    For PVP you generally want long range weapons(so Artillery Cannons for minmatar, Railguns if you use Hybrid Weapons, so Gallente and some Caldari, Beam lasers for Amarr and Standard Missiles if you're using a missile boat.) But only use long range weapons if you can fire them effectively from about 12km range, so you're outside Warp Scrambler, Energy Neutralizer and Stasis Webifier range. This is because Scramblers and Webs slow you down, and a frigate's speed is what keeps it alive, and Neuts drain your cap, meaning you can't use your modules. The way you manage this is in your hold, you have two types of ammo (generally.) Long range ammo and short range ammo. If the target has Scramblers, Neuts and Webs, you load the long range ammo and orbit him outside the range of those modules. The lesser damage is the price you pay for staying alive. If he doesn't have those modules, you orbit at short range and with your most powerful ammo. This is also the reason why the fleet needs a mixture of Points (Warp Disruptors (long range tackle) and Scrams (short range tackle,) we'd also use Webs to catch fast ships like Interceptors and other frigates.)

    For PVP a MWD (Micro warp drive) is essential 90% of the time. For PVP the reason to fit Micro Warp Drives is two fold. One if you're being targetted by drones, you can minimize their damage by hitting the MWD and going faster than they can chase you (with most drones anyway.) Some people also say a MWD stops you being tracked (that's how well the guns follow your orbit), while others would say the sig radius increase (That's the downside of MWD, your sig radius, which is how big your ship looks to people's weapons, increases) which means they can do more damage if they hit you. The best way is to do this is to find out for yourself, if you're taking damage from drones, or weapons turn it on, if the amount of damage you take goes down, keep it running until you're no longer targetted, or for as long as possible otherwise. The other reason to have them is to get in and out of range as fast as you can. Burning towards a target far off to get point, and burning out of Point range so you can warp away if you have to.


    If you don't want to fit Tackle (Although you really should) your other option is Electronic Warfare modules.

    For Minmatar you use Target Painters. These increase the sig radius of the targetted ship and make them look bigger. So your guns do more damage. Very handy against smaller and faster ships.

    For Caldari you use ECM. These modules when activated on a targetted ship, have a percentage chance of disrupting their lock on their target. If succesful, it means that for 20 seconds or so they lose their lock on whatever they had targetted, and they can't lock anything else. There are a number of types of ECM, multi-spectrum and racial, racial is good against a particular race's ships, but bad against all the others. For us because there'll only be a couple of us, and we won't know what race ship we'll be fighting, fit multi-spectrum, which isn't as good as the proper racial ECM, but works against all race's ships.

    For Amarr you use Tracking Disruptors. These mean that a ship can't track the movement of their target very well, meaning they do less damage, and they also decrease the range of their weapons, meaning they can't hit further out ships. TD's can also be fitted with scripts, this means it does double the bonus of one of the options, but none of the other.

    For Gallente you use Sensor Dampeners. These decrease the targetting range of a ship, meaning they can't target a ship far out. They also reduce the scan resolution, meaning that it takes longer to lock a ship. Again, these can be fitted with scripts that means they do double one option, but none of the other.



    If you don't want to fit tackle (although at least a couple of people in the fleet should) you can fit E-War. Although you use different ships to the ones I've listed at the start of the thread. There are racial ships that provide a bonus to their particular race's type of E-War. (You can fit another type of E-War on those ships, but you lose the bonus. Plus I think everyone is following the race they signed up with, and few have crosstrained to different ship types.) So if you want to fly E-War look up which of your racial ships give bonuses to it.,




    Most important of all, before leaving the station, make sure your medical clone is up to date (it's rage enducing to lose Skill Points because your clone isn't up to date.) And make sure your ship is insured. You will lose it.


    Play around with EveMon to see how long it'll take you to be able to fly what you want, and EFT to see what the best fit for your ship is. Once everyone is ready, we'll head out for Pewpew


    I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff. (And probably got some stuff wrong.) If you've any questions, concerns or worries, ask away. And once everyone is ready, the fun will begin.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 04:33 PM
    The_Terminator The_Terminator is offline
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    This is a great idea. Do we have TeamSpeak yet?

    Also, for those Gallente pilots looking to join in, an excellent, cheap incursus fit looks something like this:

    [Highs]
    Light Ion blaster x 3 (with antimatter ammo)

    [Mids]
    Warp Scrambler
    Stasis Webifier
    MWD

    [Lows]
    200mm Rolled Tungsten Plates
    MAPC (Micro Auxiliary Power Core)

    The basic idea is to use the mwd to speed in close to your targets, then orbit them at around 1000m (with the mwd off again), pounding them with your blasters, and web/scramming them. This works because blasters are designed for extreme close range, whereas the majority of other weapons are not - so you will be orbiting the target too close for them to be able to track you properly. It takes a bit of skill (let me know if you want to practice a bit), but done right you can easily take on cruisers and smaller. I've even seen someone destroy a Myrmidon like this, but that was something of a fluke.

    EDIT: And bring a hobgoblin with you! A drone is essential for this fit, you won't be able to do enogh damage without it.

    EDIT EDIT: There are plenty of other ways to fit and fly the incursus too - this is just one of them. It really comes down to personal preference how you want to fly it. You could probably replace the blasters on this with railguns, and fight at long range, using the mwd to stay out of web range of the enemy, for example.

    Last edited by The_Terminator; 07-24-2010 at 04:56 PM.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 04:55 PM
    Buceph Buceph is offline
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    Terminator brings up a good point. What I was saying in my first post is only my personal preference. It's equally valid to fit short range guns, get in under the tracking of your opponents and do damage to them. The idea is that even if you are webbed and scrammed, you're so close into your target that their big guns can't track you anyway.

    The problem with this is that if he has a Neut on his ship, you're going to go down because you'll have no cap. And if he has light drones, they're going to be a problem because it could be quite tough to outrun them when you're scrammed and webbed (or either on their own.)

    But like I say, it is a perfectly valid way of flying. I'm sure Terminator can do a better job jusitifying it than I can. But in the end you really have to find out for yourself which way you prefer to fly. Because if you don't like fighting a particular way, you won't be effective at it.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 06:35 PM
    Donbar Donbar is offline
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    I'm interested in this - when I'll be able to get the skills for this stuff though is another thing and may take up to a week (still need to get basic core competency sorted before I fly any serious PvP lest I explode when sneezed at). I'm still playing around with ships and fittings and stuff to see what I need to get for these fits.

    Defiantly interested though.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 07:04 PM
    Buceph Buceph is offline
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    Yeah, that's no worries. I'll wait until a good couple of people can fit there ships. But don't worry too much about it. Once you have the basic fittings you should be fine. I'm expecting us all to die in this, that's what happens in low-sec unless you're good (which none of us are yet) or lucky (which we could be.)

    So yeah, basic fit and an insured ship is what you need.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 07:18 PM
    Bimble Bimble is offline
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    Count me in for PvP. Last week when I got my first PvP kill then lost my ship my hands were shaking so bad and my heart was beating so fast I thought I would pass out. I loved it.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 07:37 PM
    redlegparatrooper redlegparatrooper is offline
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    I'm working on the skills I need to get what I think will be an okay fitting for starting.

    How's this look?


    [Rifter, PvP]

    3x 250mm Light Artillery Cannon I (EMP S)

    1MN MicroWarpdrive I
    Warp Scrambler I

    Gyrostabilizer II
    200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Micro B66 Core Augmentation

    3x EMP S (cargo)

    It will take about 3 days to get all the skills I need to meet the power requirements.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 07:42 PM
    Buceph Buceph is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by redlegparatrooper View Post
    I'm working on the skills I need to get what I think will be an okay fitting for starting.

    How's this look?


    [Rifter, PvP]

    3x 250mm Light Artillery Cannon I (EMP S)

    1MN MicroWarpdrive I
    Warp Scrambler I

    Gyrostabilizer II
    200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Micro B66 Core Augmentation

    3x EMP S (cargo)

    It will take about 3 days to get all the skills I need to meet the power requirements.
    Looks good. The only change I'd make would be to replace the Scram with a Point.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 07:51 PM
    Donbar Donbar is offline
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    Okay, been playing around with load-outs and I've found some problems:

    Unless I train several skills to level 5 (totaling about 8 days) I won't be able to meet these 'minimum' pvp requirements.

    Regardless of how high I get my skills, I won't be able to fit all modules you've mentioned. I'm going with a Gallente Incurus and to stay out of web range of 12km I need to fit 3x 150mm Railgun I
    1x 1MN Microwarpdrive I
    1x Warp scrambler I
    2x 50mm Hardend Steel plates
    But I'm still over my CPU and Cap maximum fitting. Again this is with maximum Cap and CPU skills, which I'm unlikely to train anyway.

    Same thing goes for fitting electronic warfare modules. Using a Maulus (Gallente Electronic warfare frigate) I can only get about 3/4 of the fittings. My best fitting is
    2x 125mm Railgun I
    2x 50mm Reinforced steel plates
    1x Warp Scrambler I
    1x Remote sensor Dampener
    I lack the 1MN Microwarpdrive which is critical for missions like this.

    So, these requested fittings you've put up are impossible for myself.

    Are there any skills I may be overlooking that give benefits to CPU and capacitor that I might be missing?

    Last edited by Donbar; 07-24-2010 at 07:54 PM.
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    Old 07-24-2010, 08:44 PM
    Buceph Buceph is offline
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    Let me see what I can look up. I'm sure there's a way of fitting roughly the right thing. Even if it means dropping the MWD. But they are important, and most corps will want them for PVP.


    Edit; this looks alright. Not great, but it should be easy to fit.
    [Incursus, New Setup 1]
    Overdrive Injector System I
    Nanofiber Internal Structure I

    1MN MicroWarpdrive I
    Warp Disruptor I
    Warp Scrambler I

    125mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge S
    125mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge S
    125mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge S

    [empty rig slot]
    [empty rig slot]
    [empty rig slot]


    Basically, you're only putting a small tank on it with the small shield extender. What's really going to save you is your speed. With two speed mods, and an already fast ship you should be fairly safe from anything larger than a frigate, and for frigates you can kite them with your long range guns. You could drop the shield extender for a Warp Scrambler if you wanted to go balls to the wall hardcore.

    The alternative is a Blaster fit.

    [Incursus, New Setup 1]
    200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Basic Nanofiber Internal Structure

    1MN MicroWarpdrive I
    Stasis Webifier I
    Warp Scrambler I

    Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S
    Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S
    Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S

    [empty rig slot]
    [empty rig slot]
    [empty rig slot]

    The plates for a bit of tank, nano for a tighter orbit, MWD for burning under his guns, scram and web to kill his speed and blasters to take him down.


    Either of those fits would be fine, and it just depends on whether you want to kite them or fly under their guns. When I was talking about what to do I didn't really think of your fitting skills. Some comprimises will be needed (Even for myself as Mrenda isn't a PVP character.) My advice is good for the future I think, but will need some adjusting for the moment.
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    Last edited by Buceph; 07-24-2010 at 09:07 PM.
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