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    Old 01-05-2011, 12:09 PM
    Rolleo Rolleo is offline
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    Default Hunter Help

    Hey

    Little intro: Recently Joined guild just after Cata's launch and I'm enjoying my time in PCG. I'm also enjoying huntering in Cata alot more!

    I am a survival hunter and have recently joined Team Awesome, which is really what has set this thread off because i want to deliver the highest dps i can, but at the minute i seem to be loosing out alot to other classes on the dps tables.

    These are the stats i have recorded so far (how does this stack up to other hunters in the guild?)

    Baradin hold - highest spike dps 15k average dps 10.4k
    Bastion of twilight - Highest dps 11k average dps 8k
    Heroics - My average dps in heroics is between 6.8 - 9.3k dps.

    Just a few questions for the other hunters in the guild because I am struggling to find a massive amount of information on the net that seems viable at the minute.

    1. I have linked my character sheet and would like to ask is there any problems with my spec? I have found the spec im using by trial and error in the end but the training dummies aren't the best indicator of dps and im being out dpsed alot in raids so im wondering if there are errors in my spec.

    [url]http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/steamwheedle-cartel/rolleo/simple[/url]

    2. Gemming - I have recently changed gems due to an article i read on warcrafthuntersunion but am still slightly doubtful in my mind wether it is correct or not, due to I think the WOTLK style gemming where we put the biggest agility boosting gem in place and we were done. Is anyone actually gemming hit (so they dont have to reforge any crit to hit)?

    3. Stat priority as Survival - I again have read many different things but would like some expert help on this. As survival would the stat priority be Hit > Agil > crit > haste > mastery (can this stat basically be forgotten?), and also how much haste should we really be aiming for? (Frostheim of Warcrafthuntersunion suggest that cobra shot is a 1 sec cast therefore this should be the max we should all aim for but admits its unrealistic, so what has everyone else been targetting haste wise?)

    After looking at my kit / gear i know there is room for improvement (especially trinkets) but is there any obvious problems with it and does anyone have a list of best in slot items for heroics?

    Look forward to your advice

    Thanks

    Rolleo

    Last edited by Rolleo; 01-05-2011 at 12:12 PM.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 12:36 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    for your talents you do have a few wasted points, the 2 in hunter vs wild would be better off in survival tactics as FD can be very important and you dont want it to fail if you get near agroing also it makes your other traps have less chance of failing and these are important now people need CC. I would also take the point out of the BM tree and shove it in serpent spread as in most packs you should single target to avoid getting agro of other mobs and it means you only need to multi shot every 9 seconds to keep your dot on everything.

    also on glyps swap out the serpent sting one for explosive shot as that is one of the most important survival glyphs as it is probably our biggest hitter, also I would swap out the freezing trap glyph as it doesn't have much use as if you are not ready for the mob you need to get it back in a trap as soon as possible anyway and I would replace it with the glyph for trap launcher as with the 10 focus reduction using that to fire explosive traps into a pack is the most efficient AoE for a survival hunter.

    gemming you shouldn't really gem for hit you are better off reforging a bit crit or haste, as for survival mastery if you have it, it can give a considerable damage increase that doesn't rely on a % chance like crit does. also the increas by survival mastery increases the damage of prety much every shot you will be using (serpent sting including ones from serpent spread, Explosive shot, arcane shot, cobra shot, black arrow and the 2 fire traps) and since you should be swapping cobra shot in instead of using steady shot (for survival cobra does more damage and also refreshes your serpent sting while generating focus) so every 1% increase on master is a 1% increase on your overall damage, unlike crit that relies on a chance of getting the higher damage, so mastery is quite important for survival. but getting your hit cap is still the most important stat and I would still use agility as the main stat. how ever if you are gemming to match sockets you could use some agi/master or agi/(hit/haste/crit) as that will probably cover all sockets.

    Last edited by Belimawr; 01-05-2011 at 12:39 PM.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 01:16 PM
    Illuria Illuria is offline
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    Right, since the only time I did Baradin Hold I hit 17k, I think I can give some advice. Belimawr's advice is pretty good overall, although some of it is a little bit iffy. Your talents are almost correct, move the 1 in Bestial Discipline into One with Nature, and shift the 2 in Hunter vs Wild to Survival Tactics. Pet dps is pretty unimportant, and your pet's focus regeneration is fine as it is anyway. Pets only need more focus as BM, since their special attacks hit pretty damn hard. Basically, don't worry about your pet unless you're BM.
    As far as glyphs go, swap the Arcane Shot glyph out for Explosive Shot, as Belimawr said. Major glyphs are kind of unimportant, but Glyph of Disengage is quite useful, as is Glyph of Trap Launcher. Glyph of Ice Trap is probably the third major glyph I'd recommend, since it's useful for raiding.
    With regards to gemming, unreforge everything until it's back to normal, gem your blue sockets for agi/hit, yellow for agi/crit and red for pure agi. If you're below the hit cap still, reforge to get to it. After the hit cap, your first aim should then be the haste soft cap. This is roughly 8%, which allows you to get 3 cobra shots between every explosive shot. After that, your primary green stat is crit, followed by mastery and then haste.
    Best in slot trinkets are Tia's Grace heroic from Lost City of the Tol'vir, and then Key to the Endless Chamber heroic from Stonecore if you use ALL the hit on it. Otherwhise, the next best is Skardyn's Grace from Grim Batol. Your legs are best improved to Balkar's Waders from Lost City of the Tol'vir, your weapon should be Seliza's Spear, again from Lost City of the Tol'vir. If you have revered with Therazane, get Terrath's Signet of Balance for your other ring. Your weapon can either be the gun Lightningflash from Vortex Pinnacle or the bow Amber Messenger from Blackrock Caverns. Not sure about the shoulders. Bracers should be the heroic version =)

    That, I think, is it... Anything else, just ask =)
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    Old 01-05-2011, 01:29 PM
    greenbeermonkey greenbeermonkey is offline
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    Perhaps input on shot prioritisation could be put on, could that be a factor in dps loss?

    We could really do with a hunter sticky thread - i'll investigate and try and get something on here - verified by our resident hunter experts! (looks to Iluria, Beli and Chewwie!)

    Doomcluck may be able to assist you with crafting an epic chest if you can help supply mats. Give me a holler if you need anything transmuted.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 01:45 PM
    Illuria Illuria is offline
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    Shot prioritisation!
    Start off with SrS -> BA -> ES -> CoS
    You should be getting 3 Cobra Shots between every Explosive Shot with sufficient haste. Black Arrow is fired when it comes off cooldown. Serpent Sting is being kept up by Cobra Shot of course. If you get a Lock and Load proc, interlace Cobra Shot with Explosive Shot, do NOT fire one after the other, you replace the DoTs and lose damage. If you find yourself on too much focus after a Lock and Load, fire off a quick Arcane Shot AFTER the proc has gone. That is the ONLY time you should be using Arcane Shot.
    Always be in Aspect of the Hawk, unless you're going to move for more than 15s (such as Argaloth's Fel Firestorm phase), in which case switch into Aspect of the Fox. I don't know if they fixed the requirement to stutter-run, I still need to do some more experiments on it.
    Always remember, hunters > all
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    Old 01-05-2011, 01:45 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    green the shots are easy, you want your serpent sting and hunters make up as a priority, then it's just black arrow and explosive shot as they come off cool down using cobra shot to fill the gaps then arcane to burn off focus if you cap (keeping enough for if black arrow/ explosive shot comes off cooldown) as with the survival mastery arcane shot can hit quite hard. also by using cobra shot as your filler between shot cool downs it keeps serpent sting up and regens your focus.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 01:47 PM
    Chewwie Chewwie is offline
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    I don't have much time to make a realy detailed guide/post but a few points of the top of my head and from looking at your armoury. Generally, read more of what Frosthiem has to say on Warcraft Hunter's Union. Follow it and you won't go far wrong. Try not to focus all of your reading in that one place though, as he's only human and makes mistakes too . Elitist Jerks is a very good source of info and your should be using a dps analyser too: [URL="http://www.femaledwarf.com/"]www.femaledwarf.com[/URL] is the best for hunters.

    Talents: not too bad, no real howlers or anything that hugely lowers your single target (raid boss) dps. Check out [URL="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/steamwheedle-cartel/chewwie/talent/primary"]Chewwie[/URL] for what I believe to be the optimal raid build. The only real choice in the SV tree atm for raiding hunters is the 2 points in Hunter VS Wild and Survival Tactics. The extra stamina from Hunter VS Wild is nice, especially as we're all still quite fragile at this stage, however, I prefer the extra utility provided by Survival Tactics. Neither is wrong really, provided you're happy with your choice.

    Glyphs: copy Chewwie's. You don't fire Arcane Shot enough to warrant using that glyph over Glyph of Explosive Shot.

    Enchants: Loads missing. They make a significant contribution to your dps, don't ever overlook them. I know you're still gearing though, so I forgive you . Again, look at Chewwie's enchants. They're not all optimal, but they're the best available to me at this point in the expansion.

    Gems: Activating that meta is your no.1 gemming priority. Piercing and Sensei's Jaspers are your friends here. Agility in everything else unless the bonus is agility - then it's worth dropping pure agi for say, a purple gem with agi and hit on it.

    Pets dps: Your pet provides a significant amount of DPS, so make sure you're pet always has it's talents. I've fallen foul of this before!

    Stat Priority: Agi>Crit>Mastery/Haste. Why have I not listed hit? Being hitcapped is a requirement, not a priority. It exists in spades on agi mail and you can hit cap very easily by reforging. A general rule is to reforge Mastery into hit if below cap. You should be as close to 8% hit as you can be, and never under it. With reforging, there's no excuse either. Hit carries over to your pet too! Mastery is not as good as crit, because Auto Shot doesn't benefit from mastery. Nor does Killshot. I've played around with haste and at certain levels it even outweighs agi. I'd love to get my Cobra shot cast down to 1sec, but it's just not going to happen so, I have decided to ignore it and prioritise crit which is more beneficial until softcapping becomes a factor, imo.

    Try not to focus too much on the dps other classes are doing. They're not all equal, and never will be. They may also have better gear than your do. Hunter to hunter is the best way to go. In truth, your gear is ok and you could be doing a little more. How you play makes the biggest impact on your dps. Rotation and movement is therefore key.

    Loose Priority: Serpent Sting>Explosive Shot>Black Arrow>Cobra Shot. Hit arcane shot if over 80 focus and weave Arcane in between Explosive Shots when Lock n Load procs.

    Always mark your target unless your target will die very fast.

    I think that's all. Anything else, just ask.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 02:03 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    chewwie that was the same talent spec I found when I was looking round.

    but I still think the stats need more weight to show what is best as some places I have seen them saying mastery, crit and haste all in different orders, the only real constant is agi and the hit cap.

    also chew what is the best preference for the majors? as you look like you have solo play ones in.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 02:10 PM
    Del Del is offline
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    @ Chewwie

    I'd dump 1 point in serpent spread for 1/3 in One with Nature otherwise that's cool :P

    Enchant fully for agility, even on boots, since now you can fire cobra shot while moving it isn't as essential to have the Mspeed increase

    [URL="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ravencrest/d%C3%A9la/advanced"]This is what i did[/URL] - I AM DRAENEI (so hit cap is 7% for me, you may have to reforge slightly differently)

    *Note the 2set bonus isn't worth getting over 2piece 352 pvp gear since agility is so highly rated at the moment, only consider set bonuses when you can equip all 4 pieces at once :S*

    The 365 pvp gear is extremely easy to acquire (2 piece requires 5 arena wins for 3 weeks!) and will net you far higher dps than non-heroic epics, purely because of the 70/180 agi set bonuses.

    As for stat priority;

    Agility + 1 3.762
    Crit Rating + 1 1.136
    Attack Power + 1 1.066
    Mastery Rating + 1 0.828
    Haste Rating + 1 0.378
    Hit + 1 (when below cap) 0.040

    Is what i currently have (assuming i'm being given dark intent)

    Without DI you'll be looking at something more like this:

    Agility + 1 3.511 3.511
    Haste Rating + 1 2.100
    Note: Different quantities of haste will vary significantly in value due to shot shifting.
    Attack Power + 1 0.999
    Crit Rating + 1 0.953
    Mastery Rating + 1 0.817
    Hit + 1 (when below cap) 0.039

    So what this means is:
    Aim for roughly 8% haste (it's close to 810 rating i believe although i'm probably wrong)

    And yeah, regem so that your meta is activated, and back off the the good'old relentless earthsiege, it's still BiS
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    Last edited by Del; 01-05-2011 at 02:20 PM.
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    Old 01-05-2011, 02:20 PM
    Chewwie Chewwie is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Belimawr View Post
    also chew what is the best preference for the majors? as you look like you have solo play ones in.
    I'd say Glyph of Disengage is the only Major that's mandatory. The rest are just preference/pointless. I cba even changing my 3rd major glyph. Although, I do think that Glyph of MD is too good solo to overlook. It also has some raid utility. Since MD now falls off, I'm loathe to use it in long fights and I find that it's become more of situational use than anything. Provided your tank is anything other than AFK, aggro shouldn't be an issue. However, MD'ing to your pet gives you some much needed breathing room on DPS races when you blow CD's. Provided you're not stupid, you can have 2 MD's for the price of one Feign Death

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Del View Post
    @ Chewwie

    I'd dump 1 point in serpent spread for 1/3 in One with Nature otherwise that's cool :P
    Agreed, but for 67 AP I'll stick with what I have until Magmaw is so ridiculously easy for us that I can AFK the parasite phase and that freak Maloriak's adds fall over when we target them
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    Last edited by Chewwie; 01-05-2011 at 02:26 PM.
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