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    Old 10-11-2010, 06:10 PM
    Klogaroth Klogaroth is offline
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    Yes Wyrmy, they are. The first to get to 85 and geared for raiding will be the first in the raid wing.
    This is perfectly logical.

    What we will not do, however, is populate the raid wing with the first 25 people to hit 85. It'll be a few weeks (months?) before raid wing members begin to fall into place while everyone levels up and gears up, then we can judge people on their raiding skill rather than their ability to level quickly.

    It is worth noting that the first to hit 85 will also be the ones with the best gear in theory and the most experience in raiding the new instances with the redesigned classes. A lot of the time the first to hit 85 are those most serious about raids though, I know several people, myself included, who are using a chunk of their holidays for the remainder of the financial year to take some time off for Cata. Now this isn't for everyone, but I'd wager those who are doing it are going to put some serious effort into raiding.

    To summarise, i foresee many of the early 85s being those who are already good raiders.


    Final note, I took my hols cos theres not much else before april that requires a holiday as christmas is a freebie.

    Last edited by Klogaroth; 10-11-2010 at 06:15 PM.
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    Old 10-11-2010, 09:33 PM
    Zalid Zalid is offline
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    There is still the big question regarding 10/25 man raiding and the lockout situation. It will be interesting to see how this pans out once Cata hits.
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    Old 10-12-2010, 07:22 AM
    Wyrmy Wyrmy is offline
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    Klog,

    Dont know if I read your reply wrong but you seemed offended that I asked.

    I also am taking a few days holiday to play Cata, but as this guild is a mix of casual and hardcore people I was just thinking if all the hardcore fill the raid slots then PCG may miss out on some absolutley awesome raiders who can only play once/twice a week.
    I dont agree that the people who hit 85 will be the best raiders though, some people will just quest to 85 and may not even see 5 man content.
    As long as the raid teams are picked from a mix of people I think it will be fair.

    Obviously, the progression runs will want to start as soon as possible, I just dont want PCG to become like some guilds - "You MUST hit 85 in one week" etc etc

    Wyrmy
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    Old 10-12-2010, 08:11 AM
    Darieth Darieth is offline
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    I'm gonna start poking the easiest raid in 10-man as soon as I think we can cobble together a 10-man team to kill a boss. We'll open up Raid Wing Applications as soon as we start getting characters geared for raiding; remember, the application process is as much a spec and addon check as it is a gear check. Also remember that the Raid Wing is a list of our very best raiders, not everyone who ever raids with us.

    By the end of WotLK, we were competitive, in raiding terms. I'd like us to start the next expansion as successfully as we have ended this one, which means trying to be at the cutting edge of progression. Raiding isn't for everyone, and serious progression raiding certainly isn't, but that's part of our "offering something for everyone" ethos. Applying, joining and taking part in our few truly progression raids is only one way to experience WoW, but it's the way I choose to play, and this means a certain level of commitment. We have always catered for players who don't want to commit to that level, and I'm proud that we're now at the stage where I don't think the best raiders will leave us, looking for more challenging opportunities, as has been the case in the past.

    So, in short, you don't get the be a Raid Wing member just because you got to 85 fast, though (as Klog said) the best raiders are some of the more committed players, who will probably be some of the first to get there. The Raid Wing is also a fluid thing; as people fail to attend, or perform poorly, new spaces will open up. The new raid system also gives us more flexibility with the number of Raid Wing members that we have on the roster at any one time.

    Don't panic, we'll get there.
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    Old 10-12-2010, 03:02 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    see I play casually, but I'm not too worried about the raid wing, as to me getting to 85 is only half the problem, to me the gearing once you hit 85 is going to be the hard bit. as with it only being the first raid teir, the heroics are still going to be hard and the raids even harder so gearing up won't be like now where you chuck in a load of time farming heroics and can easily walk into a raid more or less the same day you turn 80.

    I look forward to the challenge, but my only suggestion for the raid wing and cata is wait till we get to the point where we are over subbing to raids before bringing the rules back into the game. while this is as much a spec check as a gear check while the team is still expanding for the first few week's/months the people who want to hard core raid are not going to have much competition anyway and this allows the more casual players to get there and have a chance at the raid wing, making the pool to chose from larger and possibly give more and better options.
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    Old 10-12-2010, 03:25 PM
    Darieth Darieth is offline
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    Thanks Bel. Like I said, it's not like the Raid Wing is going to get full of 85s particularly fast. But I'm also not going to go back to the situation 4 months ago, where I have to inspect the gear, enchants, gems and talents of a dozen people before deciding who gets to raid. Pre-approving characters as 'Raid Ready' is simply meant to help our Raid Leaders to choose their teams, and to help individuals make the changes to get priority for raid spots.

    I'd want to run this system whether we're getting 12 or 60 signups for each raid. Whilst we're not settled on how we'll be running raids in Cata, I do know that the Raid Wing Progression Raids will have a LOT more flexibility, and it is therefore unlikely that we'll be imposing a limit on numbers of any particular role in the Raid Wing, so there's nothing to worry about if you aren't going to rush to level and gear as fast as humanly (or orcly) possible.

    That said, if it's going to take you months to get to 85 and gear up for raiding (just a rather extreme example), I'm not sure you really want to be applying to join the Guild's most progression-focussed bunch of raiders. Remember, we will continue to find new ways to allow all different kinds of players to access at least some content; the Raid Wing is only one of these, and it isn't for everyone.
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    Old 10-12-2010, 03:27 PM
    Urumqi Urumqi is offline
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    Most of the progression raiders naturally play to raid wing rules and were doing so long before raid wing was even thought of so it will make little difference.

    Those who put the time and the effort early in first will get the raid slots even if there was no raid wing

    First tier cata raiding wont be like ToC 25 when we could take a few undergeared players each time to boost them up. 'Tis gonna be hard! I cant wait

    Raid wing wont be static either. Essentially it would reset each raid tier anyway as people have to gear up again.

    Just cos you are first to tier 11 does not mean you will be first to kill Deathwing.
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    Old 10-12-2010, 03:44 PM
    Belimawr Belimawr is offline
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    uru really the raids are progression from each other so in theory by having done the T11 raids you would already be geared for t12 (just not t12 heroic) so the raid wing wouldn't need to reset as the raids are a standard progression and if you are geared from T11 raids it should have you at the entry level for t12 raids.

    for example look at ICC you can walk in with ToC loot and ToGC loot is actually as good if not better than t10 loot. (sure the staff I got was 258 on 25 heroic) so blizz do design the raids to overlap so using progression if you progress with the group (as raid wing is designed to) when the next tier comes out you will be ready to run it with the rest of the group.
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    Old 10-12-2010, 03:53 PM
    Urumqi Urumqi is offline
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    Having raided all the way through from Nax with PCG, i realise this.

    What i was trying to get accross (badly i realise) is that Raid wing is not just a case of getting the foot in the door and Boom, you are in every 25 man progression raid. You have to keep up to date with new gear tiers, new patches, or any other changes Blizz decide they wish to make. It's a fluid process from your first heroic to killing the end game raid boss.

    our first 25 people that killed KT were not the same 25 to first down Arthas.

    In short i would not be worrying about when raid wing applications start, learn the class get the gear and you'll get to raid. As a meerkat once said, "Simples!"
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    Old 10-12-2010, 04:50 PM
    Zigzig Zigzig is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Urumqi View Post
    ...
    our first 25 people that killed KT were not the same 25 to first down Arthas.
    ...
    I think that about sums it up in a nutshell.

    I want to do progression raiding in Cata. But I just dont have the time to burn to 85 in 2 weeks. Whether I take 2 months or 6 - I'm sure there will be opportunities there.

    Having said that Pearl Harbor day is looking like it might have to be taken off ...

    Tora, tora, tora

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