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    Old 08-10-2012, 03:50 AM
    lith lith is offline
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    I'm still not comfortable building my own PC

    That's fine, and understandable - I know geeks often assume that just because they find something easy, it should be easy for everyone. But there are still better options than the big-name companies.

    I can almost guarantee that, if you're in a town of any size in almost anywhere in world, there'll be a geek who builds bespoke PCs for a living (or part of one). It will, of course, be a bit more expensive than DIY, but still a much, much better proposition than going for a pret-a-porter PC.

    Or, better yet, find a mate who's into PCs already. They'll build it for almost nil labour costs - just for the chance of playing around with new hardware! And, better yet, you might even learn how to build one yourself.
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    Old 08-10-2012, 05:28 AM
    lith lith is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tr4656 View Post
    Isn't that what hes saying?

    Don't forget AKG, Ultrasone, Fostex, etc for headphones.
    Yeah, I was agreeing .

    Those are all good, too.

    Our point is, to put it simply, would you buy RAM from Sennheiser, or AKG? Hell no. So why would buy headphones from Corsair?
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    Old 08-10-2012, 05:49 AM
    Tr4656 Tr4656 is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lith View Post
    Yeah, I was agreeing .

    Those are all good, too.

    Our point is, to put it simply, would you buy RAM from Sennheiser, or AKG? Hell no. So why would buy headphones from Corsair?
    Thats not that great of an analogy though. I wouldn't buy Cooler Master PSUs but I would buy Corsair PSUs and cases. At the end of the day, it all depends on the actual product and not the brand. I can use the Creative Aurvana Live!, Alienware Ozma as examples. The Creative is a Fostex OEM and the Ozma 5 is Ultrasone HFI-550.
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    Last edited by Tr4656; 08-10-2012 at 05:56 AM.
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    Old 12-30-2012, 11:46 PM
    CryoBurnZ CryoBurnZ is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lith View Post
    For the cost of what Razer or any other joke of a "headset" company charages for their MEGA-L33T UBER KEWL LED OMG WTF BBQ BOOM HEADSHOT SERIEZ headsets, one can get infinitely superior cans from companies that are actualy, honest-to-Flying-Spaghetti-Monster audio companies.
    So would you say Astro is an example of a "headset" company that is a joke who charges way to much for their products? Because let me tell you, I have the A40s and they sound *pristine*. Sure, they are expensive, but thats because of their high quality and the fact the come with a surround sound processor.
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    Old 01-15-2013, 01:00 AM
    Layman Layman is offline
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    Default Perfect Thread

    Great post, cleared some generalizations up for me. Before specifics, I must explain my previous blunder.

    About a year ago I was obsessed with getting a computer to play Arma 2, I went a liquidation shop saw a little Acer computer with a Quad Core, Nvidia 9xxxGT or something and thought "Oh, a 400$ computer should play a 3-4 year old game np" I even brought the recommended system reqirements to the store and the guy said it would run it at max np. LOL WRONG! wouldn't run at all (After downloading Arma 2 for 30 straight hours).
    OK NP!, get a video card and everything will be fine, oh right 250W PSU, so upgrade the PSU, I'm not an expert but handy enough to get er' done. Hit up newegg, they have 1 PSU that fits into my small case, 1 graphics card that is "low profile", order it, install it, re-install Arma2 because I think I shorted the HDD or something and lost everything. It runs at ~25 FPS which is only playable because I'm addicted, any other game I would give up.
    All in all it cost me about 750$, many hours of frustration because the PSU never really fit right, it was really loud, and it didn't perform at all like I wanted, I would have been happy with 50-60fps on medium, but couldn't get more than 30fps no matter how low.
    Fast forward to now I've removed the upgrades and abandoned Arma 2, and I'm obsessing about Arma 3. Now I've decided to get a beastly computer, giving myself a 2000$-2500$ budget, basically my savings for a year so I can Arma 2 now, and hopefully Arma 3 in a few months.

    Now to the point of this post, I'm very close to ordering a cyberpower computer which will run me about 2200$.

    Core components:
    Azza Genesis 9000 Full Tower Gaming Case w/ 2 x 230mm fans, 4x Easy Swap HDD, Dual Power Supply Support, & front USB 3.0 Port
    Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz 10MB
    1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue
    (4-Way SLI/CrossFireX Support) GIGABYTE X79-UP4 Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX
    800 Watts - Standard Power Supply
    AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card [+287] (HIS IceQ Edition
    120 GB SAMSUNG 840 Series SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD
    Asetek 510LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan (Enhanced Cooling Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA) (Dual Standard 120MM Fans

    (These components are about 1700$, 200$ mouse/mousepad/pro wiring/extra cooling, and 300$ is shipping/tax)

    Already from reading this thread I know I'm the target audience so I'd like to ask as many questions as I can think of. I know some answers may be "it depends" but assume all question pertain to Arma 2 please.

    1. How do you know you have enough cooling?

    2. Liquid Cooling sounds awesome but fancy, is it difficult to install?

    3. The processors have that glue you have to apply, how precise of a process is it? It sounds intimidating and messy ie. dangerous to surrounding pieces.

    4. If you're goal is simply a minimum of 60FPS at high action times where on the spectrum should you're components be?

    5. For games with huge draw distances and tons of AI (Arma), is ram and an SSD more important than the graphics card?

    6. What are the main things to look for in order to ensure you can upgrade everything when needed?

    7. Can you CrossFire/SLI 2 different models but of the same brand, like a GTX 650 and GTX680?

    8. Do you think it's even possible to play Arma 2 with 60FPS, in at least all vanilla situations?

    9. Which is more important, speed or amount of memory in VRAM or RAM?

    I thought I'd have more questions, but that seems to be it.

    Thank you for your time.
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    Old 01-15-2013, 01:52 AM
    Tr4656 Tr4656 is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Layman View Post
    Great post, cleared some generalizations up for me. Before specifics, I must explain my previous blunder.

    About a year ago I was obsessed with getting a computer to play Arma 2, I went a liquidation shop saw a little Acer computer with a Quad Core, Nvidia 9xxxGT or something and thought "Oh, a 400$ computer should play a 3-4 year old game np" I even brought the recommended system reqirements to the store and the guy said it would run it at max np. LOL WRONG! wouldn't run at all (After downloading Arma 2 for 30 straight hours).
    OK NP!, get a video card and everything will be fine, oh right 250W PSU, so upgrade the PSU, I'm not an expert but handy enough to get er' done. Hit up newegg, they have 1 PSU that fits into my small case, 1 graphics card that is "low profile", order it, install it, re-install Arma2 because I think I shorted the HDD or something and lost everything. It runs at ~25 FPS which is only playable because I'm addicted, any other game I would give up.
    All in all it cost me about 750$, many hours of frustration because the PSU never really fit right, it was really loud, and it didn't perform at all like I wanted, I would have been happy with 50-60fps on medium, but couldn't get more than 30fps no matter how low.
    Fast forward to now I've removed the upgrades and abandoned Arma 2, and I'm obsessing about Arma 3. Now I've decided to get a beastly computer, giving myself a 2000$-2500$ budget, basically my savings for a year so I can Arma 2 now, and hopefully Arma 3 in a few months.

    Now to the point of this post, I'm very close to ordering a cyberpower computer which will run me about 2200$.

    Core components:
    Azza Genesis 9000 Full Tower Gaming Case w/ 2 x 230mm fans, 4x Easy Swap HDD, Dual Power Supply Support, & front USB 3.0 Port
    Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz 10MB
    1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue
    (4-Way SLI/CrossFireX Support) GIGABYTE X79-UP4 Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX
    800 Watts - Standard Power Supply
    AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card [+287] (HIS IceQ Edition
    120 GB SAMSUNG 840 Series SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD
    Asetek 510LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan (Enhanced Cooling Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA) (Dual Standard 120MM Fans

    (These components are about 1700$, 200$ mouse/mousepad/pro wiring/extra cooling, and 300$ is shipping/tax)

    Already from reading this thread I know I'm the target audience so I'd like to ask as many questions as I can think of. I know some answers may be "it depends" but assume all question pertain to Arma 2 please.

    1. How do you know you have enough cooling?

    2. Liquid Cooling sounds awesome but fancy, is it difficult to install?

    3. The processors have that glue you have to apply, how precise of a process is it? It sounds intimidating and messy ie. dangerous to surrounding pieces.

    4. If you're goal is simply a minimum of 60FPS at high action times where on the spectrum should you're components be?

    5. For games with huge draw distances and tons of AI (Arma), is ram and an SSD more important than the graphics card?

    6. What are the main things to look for in order to ensure you can upgrade everything when needed?

    7. Can you CrossFire/SLI 2 different models but of the same brand, like a GTX 650 and GTX680?

    8. Do you think it's even possible to play Arma 2 with 60FPS, in at least all vanilla situations?

    9. Which is more important, speed or amount of memory in VRAM or RAM?

    I thought I'd have more questions, but that seems to be it.

    Thank you for your time.
    Are you willing to build it yourself? You will get a much more capable build and still be cheaper. Also, some parts of this build isn't that good or optimal for gaming so its kind of a waste of money (such as 3820, 800w is questionable).

    1. Depends on how much you want to OC. If you aren't going to overclock much, little cooling is fine.
    2. Isn't it already installed on a prebuild? These are closed loops so they don't cool that well to begin with but are rather easy to install.
    3. Its not that precise, just a small amount. You won't need to do it if its a prebuild either. Still, I would advise building it yourself.
    4. Depends on monitor size and game.
    5. RAM and GPU.
    6. Mobo, PSU, and CPU.
    7. No, you can't.
    8. Yeah, I don't see why not. I can do it just fine.
    9. Uh, amount to extent, speed doesn't matter much to an extent too.
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      #37   Report Post  
    Old 01-15-2013, 06:00 AM
    Layman Layman is offline
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    My questions were assuming that I build it myself.

    I'm willing to give building it a shot, but I've been shopping around quite a bit today and it doesn't seem that much cheaper. I've went to newegg, they are about the same as having it built, although it's hard to match parts precisely so I may have overreached on something.

    tigerdirect might be cheaper if I find my mistakes, I must of upgraded some parts accidentally or something, the results are below.

    It's being overclocked by 20%, that was 50$ if it's built but I'm not comfortable overclocking myself.

    I'm definitely interested in saving money on parts I don't need, if like you said they're not much help for gaming. I was wondering about the 800W, I may need to add another 7970 later which would put it over, so probably 1000W?

    Which processor would you suggest, that would be great if it made up for the extra power, I chose that processor because it gave me a 'free' wifi/bluetooth adapter.

    My monitor is a 23" LED HD 1920x1080, 5ms, I do plan on getting another one by the end of the year.

    I've got an uncle that works on hardware I'm sure he'll give me a hand for my first time, 2000$ is a lot of money to me so I'd be nervous to do it on my own.

    Here's what I've got so far, Cyberpower: 2200$ Built, Tigerdirect: 2200$ parts, Cyberpower doesn't provide prices on individual pieces, only how much compared to base price so it's harder for me to tell where my mistakes are because it shouldn't cost the same built, it even looks like some of the parts are better from cyberpower. Sorry if it's a mess I'm not sure how to clean it up and maintain the information you need.

    *BASE_PRICE: [+1195]

    CARE1: Professional Wiring for All WIRING Inside The System Chassis - Minimize Cable Exposure, Maximize Airflow in Your System [+19]

    CASE: * Azza Genesis 9000 Full Tower Gaming Case w/ 2 x 230mm fans, 4x Easy Swap HDD, Dual Power Supply Support, & front USB 3.0 Port (Black Color)

    **TIGERDIRECT: A702-0007 ::Azza CSAZ-1000 Solano 1000 Full Tower Gaming Case - ATX, Micro-ATX, E-ATX, 10x Ext 5.25", 1x Ext 3.5", 8x Int 3.5", 1x 120mm Fan, 2x 140mm Fans, 2 x 230mm Fans, 3x USB, e-SATA, Blue LED ($137.99)

    CD: 24X Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive (BLACK COLOR)

    **TIGERDIRECT: S203-8620 ::Samsung SE-208DB/TSBS 8X Slim External DVD Burner - USB 3.0, 1 MB Buffer, 24X CD-R, 24X CD-RW, 8X DVD-R, 8X DVD+RW, 150ms Access Time, Black($40.99)

    COOLANT: Standard Coolant

    CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 (All Venom OC Certified)

    **TIGERDIRECT: 69-3770K ::Intel Core i7-3770K BX80667i73770K Processor - Quad Core, 8MB L3 Cache, 3.50GHz (3.90GHz Max Turbo), Socket H2 (LGA1155), 77W, Fan, Unlocked, Retail($319.97)

    CS_FAN: Default case fans

    FAN: Asetek 510LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan (Enhanced Cooling Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA) (Dual Standard 120MM Fans (Push-Pull) [+9])

    **TIGERDIRECT: Cooler Master Seidon CPU Water Cooling Radiator ($80.99)

    FLASHMEDIA: INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)

    FREEBIE_MB: GIGABYTE GC-WB300D Exclusive Bluetooth 4.0/WiFi PCIe Expansion Card [+0]

    **TIGERDIRECT: C300-4008 ::CNet CWP-905 Wireless-N PCI Adapter - 3x 2dBi external antennas, 32-bit PCI, IEEE 802.11b/g/n($28.99)

    FREEBIE_VC: FREE Sleeping Dogs Game Coupon [+0]

    HDD: 120 GB SAMSUNG 840 Series SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD - 530MB/s Read & 130MB/s Write [-34] (Single Drive [Free upgrade from 64GB A-DATA SP900 SSD (Double
    SSD Capacity - Single drive only)])

    **TIGERDIRECT: O261-6380 ::OCZ VTX3-25SAT3-120G Vertex 3 Solid State Drive - 120GB, 2.5", SATA III ($109.97)

    HDD2: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 7200 RPM HDD [+94] (Single Drive)

    **TIGERDIRECT: TSD-1000AS7 ::Seagate ST1000DM003 Barracuda 1TB Hard Drive - 7200RPM, 64MB, SATA 6Gb/s($79.97)

    IUSB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports

    KEYBOARD: Black Multimedia/Internet USB Keyboard

    MEMORY: 16GB (4GBx4) DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory (Kingston HyperX [+0])

    **TIGERDIRECT:C13-5709 ::Corsair CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10 Vengeance Desktop Memory Kit - 16GB (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, 240-pin DIMM, 1.5V, CL10, XMP Ready, Unbuffered($103.99)

    MOPAD1: Razer Vespula Dual Sided Gaming Mouse Mat [+31]

    **TIGERDIRECT: x2 ($69.98)

    MOTHERBOARD: * (4-Way SLI/CrossFireX Support) GIGABYTE X79-UP4 Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ Ultra Durable 5, 7.1 HD Audio,
    GbLAN, 4 Gen3 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1 & 1 PCI [+12]

    **TIGERDIRECT: A455-2038 ::ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 Intel Series 7 Motherboard - ATX, Socket H2 (LGA115), Intel Z77 Express, 1866MHz DDR3, SATA III (6Gb/s), RAID, 8-CH Audio, Gigabit LAN, USB 3.0, PCIe 3.0, Thermal Armor($244.97)

    MOUSE: Razer Naga Hex 11 Buttons 5600 DPI Laser Gaming Mouse [+62]

    **TIGERDIRECT: YYI2-83039N ::Razer RZ01-00280500-R3M1 Naga Molten Special Edition Gaming Mouse - USB, 5600 dpi, Laser Sensor, 17 Programmable Buttons($78.99)

    NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network

    OS: Microsoft® Windows 8 Pro (64-bit Edition) [+31]

    **TIGERDIRECT: Windows 8 home 64 bit ($99.99)

    OVERCLOCK: Extreme OC (Extreme Overclock 20% or more) [+49]

    POWERSUPPLY: 800 Watts - Standard Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready

    **TIGERDIRECT: C13-2604 ::Corsair CMPSU-700G Gaming Series GS700 700W Power Supply - 700W, ATX, 140mm Fan, Tri-color LEDs($114.99)
    RUSH: No Rush Service, Estimate Ship Date 12 Business Days

    SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT

    SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

    VIDEO: AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card [+287] (HIS IceQ Edition [+50])

    **TIGERDIRECT: P450-7976 GAME4 ::XFX Radeon HD 7970 3GB DDR5 Video Card and SLEEPING DOGS/HITMAN/FAR CRY 3 and 20 % Off MEDAL OF HONOR COUPON Bundle($414.97)

    **CYBERPOWER PRICE: ($2146)

    **TIGERDIRECT PRICE: ($2224)
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    Old 01-15-2013, 06:29 AM
    Tez710 Tez710 is offline
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    I never got why people desired the highest of frame rates. The human eye can only register up to 12fps. So all these people that are demanding 60fps, you don't bloody need em. I also love people who go all the way up to 120fps, your wasting your money on frames you can't even see and those that say they can see the difference are lying, would be like saying you can see in ultra violet at 10 miles.
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    Old 01-15-2013, 02:42 PM
    Tr4656 Tr4656 is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tez710 View Post
    I never got why people desired the highest of frame rates. The human eye can only register up to 12fps. So all these people that are demanding 60fps, you don't bloody need em. I also love people who go all the way up to 120fps, your wasting your money on frames you can't even see and those that say they can see the difference are lying, would be like saying you can see in ultra violet at 10 miles.
    That's not the same as whether the image would be smooth though. When you have a 60Hz monitor, you need 60 fps (or close to it) and 120 fps for a 120 Hz monitor.
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    Old 01-15-2013, 09:06 PM
    Layman Layman is offline
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    So can anyone explain why it seems to be the same price whether I buy a prebuilt system or the individual parts?
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