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    Old 04-18-2012, 07:16 PM
    PliXer PliXer is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Izay View Post
    I've already wasted enough hours on this, fuck if I can be bothored to do it again :P
    I will however get the popcorn and watch with glee when you two become frustrated and start to scream at eachother!

    Edit: Holy mother of all that is holy... We actually came to an understanding.. *hooray*
    Hooray! (said with Cleveland Brown's voice)

    I will be very honest though, if i spend so much time arguing here it is because I didn't recieve my GTX 680 so I cant play my games until then. But it's a very good way to kill time lol.
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    Old 04-19-2012, 03:19 AM
    Megazell Megazell is offline
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    And why do you think they created standards and policies? Because we have to define what we're talking about! Calling musician a 5 year old learning flute at school isn't appropriate because the term musician would be too widely used and wouldn't mean anything. Everyone would be a musician. It would be just as inappropriate to call my father, who only plays flight simulator once a week, a PC gamer. If my father is a PC gamer, then more than 80% of the north american and european population would be PC gamer.

    Pluto lost it's planet status few years ago. It looks like a planet. It's round. It's big. It's in orbit around the sun. But it's not a planet because it hasn't cleared it's orbit of other debris. So pluto is not a planet. Its a dwarf planet. Why all the fuss about pluto? Because we have define things in the sky and dont call everything a planet.
    Looks like you're lost in your own thoughts on this.

    Musicians and artist produce products.

    PC gamers do not.

    That is why there is a standard.

    Because of the professions many would say correctly that those trying to make music or do artwork are amateurs.

    The policies, procedures and standards are instituted by the schools of various levels and certified apprenticeships.

    You seriously want to stagnate the hobby with policies, procedures and standards? Disgusting.
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    Old 04-19-2012, 03:14 PM
    The_B The_B is offline
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    (Cross posted from the other thread.)

    Right.

    Despite a disappointing amount of insults being thrown around, I do feel there have been at least two interesting debates in this thread that deserve to continue. As a result, I've now removed the irrelevant discussion on banning, but separated the two relevant discussions into two separate threads where they can continue to be discussed independently:

    One on the "casualisation" and consolation in the games market, which is in the [url=http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=191843#post191843]location of the original thread[/url], and another about the definition of "What is a PC gamer?" which can [url=http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17333]be found here.[/url]

    I trust you guys that the conversation going forward will remain civil and not deteriorate any more, otherwise I will end up locking the threads.

    Cheers.
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    Old 04-19-2012, 03:27 PM
    Marleigh Marleigh is offline
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    Why do people feel the need to label and categorize everything ?

    Why are people spending so much time deciding on a label that some people can or can't use ?

    I've played video games on various systems since the late 70s, I have never once felt the need to define that in any terms. It is simply a form of recreation that I enjoy. I don't feel the need to receive some sort of stamp of approval in the form of a title.
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    Old 04-19-2012, 03:32 PM
    Izay Izay is offline
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    People that feel the need to label things like PC Gaming are the same people who only reads the score of a review rather than putting weight on the writing itself. They feel a strong urge to be approved, to look at something tangible and feel at ease with what they do rather than making up their own minds on the matter. They've put down 1000+ quid on a gaming rig. They want that purchase to MEAN something. To be validated. Why? Hell if I know.. One should think that their own satisfaction from the product would be enough...

    I could go more in depth, but you get the gist.
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    Old 04-19-2012, 03:47 PM
    Daniel Daniel is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marleigh View Post
    Why do people feel the need to label and categorize everything ?

    Why are people spending so much time deciding on a label that some people can or can't use ?

    I've played video games on various systems since the late 70s, I have never once felt the need to define that in any terms. It is simply a form of recreation that I enjoy. I don't feel the need to receive some sort of stamp of approval in the form of a title.
    People like to feel like they belong to a group so they can wage war with another group. That's my theory anyway.

    I just like to play games
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    Old 04-19-2012, 03:54 PM
    Hakary Hakary is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Megazell View Post
    Actually it does make you a hockey player. Are you a professional hockey player? No. You have to go through their policy, procedures and standards to become one.

    This example makes no sense here. Unless you going to point to a standard, policy or procedure by which one can be labelled a PC gamer.



    But he plays said game on a PC? Educate that PC gamer on his new found status.



    If he is playing said flash games on a PC, netbook or laptop he is.



    How much dedication does it take?
    How much feeling does it take?
    How much belonging does it take?

    Why would you stress a label so much for a video game hobby?
    He hit the nail on the head, how can you decide who's a pc gamer and who's not ? playing ANY given game on a PC makes you a pc gamer by definition, be it on newgrounds or crysis on max settings. You cannot measure one's dedication/feeling for pc gaming thus you just can't really label that easily. One way I see it is that you can say 'oh that guy is more serious towards pc gaming than john doe' but that doesn't rule out the possibility of john doe, who plays on newgrounds, be a 'pc gamer' .

    Elitism and in-fighting between the community will never get us far, labelling doesn't help.
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    Old 04-19-2012, 03:57 PM
    Megazell Megazell is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Izay View Post
    I've already wasted enough hours on this, fuck if I can be bothored to do it again :P
    I will however get the popcorn and watch with glee when you two become frustrated and start to scream at eachother!

    Edit: Holy mother of all that is holy... We actually came to an understanding.. *hooray*
    I love debates. I love debates of topics of my interest. Part of my latter day profession was centered around debates.

    In the end, I pose questions to better understand a person's POV. If they ignore the questions, I call them on it.

    In the end, I think every attempt to marginalize a PC's power and usage is horrible. Not just for gaming but for the core truth of the issue.

    If a person is playing games on the PC, they are a PC gamer. I consider this to be fact because it's very empirical. How anyone can argue against this is beyond me and has yet to be proven as false. Notice I did not say played but playing.

    Personally, I never spent over $400 on a rig. I've been playing PC games since 1988 (mind you this is when I was aware of PC games...my family says I started earlier but I don't remember playing those games). The debate about hardcore, soft core of professional is non-nonsensical. In the end, it's like this....going to play A VIDEO GAME on my computer that happens to be a PC that runs WIndows and Linux. PC gamer all the way.

    Last edited by Megazell; 04-19-2012 at 04:00 PM.
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    Old 04-19-2012, 04:04 PM
    DodgeFordChevrolet DodgeFordChevrolet is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Megazell View Post
    I love debates. I love debates of topics of my interest. Part of my latter day profession was centered around debates.

    In the end, I pose questions to better understand person's POV. If they ignore the questions, I call them on it.

    In the end, I think every attempt to marginalize a PC power and usage is horrible. Not just for gaming but for the core truth of the issue.

    If a person is playing games on the PC, they are a PC gamer. I consider this to be fact because it's very empirical. How anyone can argue against this is beyond me and has yet to be proven as false. Notice I did not say played but playing.

    Personally, I never spent over $400 on a rig. I've been playing PC games since 1988 (mind you this is when I was aware of PC games...my family says I started earlier but I don't remember playing those games). The debate about hardcore, soft core of professional is non-nonsensical. In the end, it's like this....going to play A VIDEO GAME on my computer that happens to be a PC that runs WIndows and Linux. PC gamer all the way.
    I agree with this. A PC Gamer has nothing to do with gamers that have expensive rigs that can play the newest games. If you GAME on your PC, then you are A PC-GAMEr. In my oppinion though, the more fanatic PC gamer is the one that cares most for PC Gaming, and in the end that can NOT be measured. I for one find it awesome people brainstorm about budget rigs! PC Gamers that do that are much more dedicated to their PC than someone that just buys A pre-built PC and doesn't care about their PC at all, and end up putting Youtube video's about their rig. Honestly what the heck? Aren't people that built their rigs with their sweat and tears supposed to do that? And usually those gamers DON'T do that, confusing. Just my oppinion.
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    Old 04-19-2012, 04:25 PM
    The_B The_B is offline
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    Personally, I agree with the term PC gamer meaning anyone who plays on PC. Whether you like flash games, Facebook games or any of those they're part of the whole spectrum of PC gaming - Heck, if you dismiss flash gaming, you dismiss Binding of Issac, which was made in Flash just as a recent example, and I'm certain there's loads of other standalone games that those who say they don't count flash games as"PC games". It's no more a term of specialisation than saying "television watcher".

    If you want to say though someone who plays PC games as a genuine hobby, in that they do it enough to consider it their main pastime, I prefer the term PC games enthusiast, as I think that better encapsulates people in that way. It also doesn't differentiate between what sort of PC gaming enthusiast a person is, but can be then broken down into further subsets, if you really need to express that.

    But genuinely ignoring a whole subset of PC gaming just because it isn't what you see as 'the one true group' I think is dangerous because as it only serves to make the elitist even more elite, and that subset gets smaller and smaller until it essentially sets it's standards so high it essentially 'prices' itself out of existence. I'm not saying you can't dislike it - that's fine, but ignoring it altogether I think is where danger lies.
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